How far reaching are God's powers?

[MilesAbbott81]

Three more souls condemned, all because you couldn't explain yourself.

Are you responsible for that?  Is it beyond the realm of possibility that you may be doing evil, here?

It's not that I'm unable to explain myself, it's that God has blinded you three and hardened your hearts. He sends strong delusion to those who delight in wickedness.

How could I be responsible for something God has done to you?

[HappySkeptic]

Three more souls condemned, all because you couldn't explain yourself.

Are you responsible for that?  Is it beyond the realm of possibility that you may be doing evil, here?

It's not that I'm unable to explain myself, it's that God has blinded you three and hardened your hearts. He sends strong delusion to those who delight in wickedness.

How could I be responsible for something God has done to you?

So, let me get this straight.  Grand Nudger is going to the Pearly Gates, and God will say "MilesAbbott81 gave you a perfect cogent explanation, but you didn't believe it.  You didn't believe it, not because it was nonsense, but because I didn't want you to believe it.  I get a kick out of this sort of thing.  Go to Hell!".

You come across as very young and naive in your faith.

[MilesAbbott81]

It must be good to know "Truth".

It is, but rest assured that I suffered intensely before the Truth was made known to me. That's how it must be for the vast majority of us, if not all of us. So in a way it wasn't good at all...but overall it's certainly worth it.

People who have lived long enough to recover from teenage Jesus Camp experiences normally learn a little nuance about their religion.  They realize that the bible has contradictions, ancient story, myth.  They realize that the answers that the bible gives are often not sufficient to explain life with respect to a modern education.  They often find that they stop worrying about what their pastor says about what God allegedly thinks about their neighbors and just start living life as a human being.

The Bible only has contradictions to those who lack understanding. False "Christians" have done a great deal of damage to people through things like "teenage Jesus Camp" and the church system, which is the synagogue of Satan.

You do yourself no favors referencing modern education, however, as though it's worth a damn. Human beings have such little understanding of things like biology, geology, etc., that all they've done is tricked themselves into explaining God away with supposedly sophisticated theories. But God makes foolish the wisdom of the world.

You come here and think you have things all figured out.

Not true. I've figured nothing out. God has bestowed upon me, undeservedly, the truth about most matters (at least, I think most, perhaps not).

• The priests invented "sin" to try to explain how a perfect God could've created an imperfect world and imperfect humans.
  
• The explanation makes no sense even to an ancient mind, because it requires God to be the creator of sin.
  

The modern person has an understanding of DNA, evolution, the Big Bang, the history of the Earth, and that bad stuff happens because it can.  The modern person understands that physics, chemistry, biology, geology, and everything in the universe works according to an arrangement of relationships that we call laws.

I explained why God created sin (evil). If you don't accept the explanation then that's fine, but only a fool would say it's an unreasonable explanation. It's the only explanation that makes any sense, in fact, because it's the truth.

Where is your "sin"?  What does "sin" look like?  Is it a part of our DNA?  Does it float around in the wind?  The bible infers that sin is disobedience to God.  So, now the whole universe disobeys God because a person (Adam) living on some backwater planet became a conscious moral agent?

You have not clearly explained anything.

I didn't think I needed to explain such things to people who spend, apparently, much time considering and discussing these things. How do you not understand yet that sin is disobedience to God according to the ten commandments? This is very basic stuff. And the Bible doesn't "infer" anything; it's absolutely clear.

Adam was simply the first to fall. He fell because he had to; it was God's plan that he should fall, and that all men should follow in his footsteps, at least until Jesus Christ.

---

So, let me get this straight.  Grand Nudger is going to the Pearly Gates, and God will say "MilesAbbott81 gave you a perfect cogent explanation, but you didn't believe it.  You didn't believe it, not because it was nonsense, but because I didn't want you to believe it.  I get a kick out of this sort of thing.  Go to Hell!".

You come across as very young and naive in your faith.

Did I ever say that? Grand Nudger has no interest in my explanations because he has no interest in God. His interest lies only in resisting God, and that is why he won't, or rather can't, understand me. He is a vessel of dishonor, destined for destruction until the Lord decides he has suffered enough. That may happen in this world...it may also not happen until the next. That is up to God.

[The Grand Nudger]

It's not that I'm unable to explain myself, it's that God has blinded you three and hardened your hearts. He sends strong delusion to those who delight in wickedness.

Why would a god need to do any of that if I'm already incapable of good?  Do you really believe that a god cursing me is required to explain my own ideas on any subject?

How could I be responsible for something God has done to you?

God's never done anything to me, but sure, could you be responsible for that if a god had ever done anything to me?  Why, or why not?  What are your requirements for moral responsibility? If I understand how you judge these things...then even if I don't agree, I can take that standard and use those metrics and agree that we see the same things by those metrics. If you'll forgive me for making a suggestion about human nature, as we've been humoring yours for some time..I suspect that you could do the same, being human.

[MilesAbbott81]

How could I be responsible for something God has done to you?

God's never done anything to me, but sure, could you be responsible for that if a god had ever done anything to me?  Why, or why not?  What are your requirements for moral responsibility?  If I understand how you judge these things...then even if I don't agree, I can take that standard and use those metrics and agree that we see the same things by those metrics.  If you'll forgive me for making a suggestion about human nature, as we've been humoring yours for some time..I suspect that you could do the same, being human.

I'm not going to answer the first part of your question because we've already done that dance, and you aren't hearing me.

God has done plenty of things to you. He has blessed you with good things, and He has punished you for your sins. Just because you fail to acknowledge it doesn't mean it hasn't happened.

Quite frankly, I find the rest of what you've written to be basically incoherent and I do not have the patience to try to make sense of it.

[The Grand Nudger]

I'm not going to answer the first part of your question because we've already done that dance, and you aren't hearing me.

I'm hearing you fine.  It's your assertion that human beings are incapable of good.  I know, I know, you think that we can be god-graced a loan on goodness, but that's not relevant to what I;m asking you.  

If I'm not capable of good, why would a god need to curse my heart or my sight in order for me to do the bad thing?  I would do it anyway, wouldn't I?  The god curse just isn't necessary to the explanation of the phenomena.

If we're going to blame something for your failure, god doing something to me isn't at the top of my list.  You?

God has done plenty of things to you. He has blessed you with good things, and He has punished you for your sins. Just because you fail to acknowledge it doesn't mean it hasn't happened.

Quite frankly, I find the rest of what you've written to be basically incoherent and I do not have the patience to try to make sense of it.

If you lack the patience or the ability to make sense of my comments, can you be morally responsible for failing to address my questions?

A productive conversation goes something like:
Me- My requirements for moral responsibility are a moral agent, and a moral choice.
You - mine are x and y and z

So, would you be morally responsible for me being incoherent? Well, you are a moral agent, so, check - you're capable of moral responsibility. You don't have any moral choice in my being incoherent, though...so..no..no, in fact, you wouldn't be. Does our process differ somehow. Is this all incomprehensible gibberish to you?

[arewethereyet]

Where is it written that MilesA81 has the answers?

[MilesAbbott81]

I'm hearing you fine.  It's your assertion that human beings are incapable of good.  I know, I know, you think that we can be god-graced a loan on goodness, but that's not relevant to what I;m asking you.  

If I'm not capable of good, why would a god need to curse my heart or my sight in order for me to do the bad thing?  I would do it anyway, wouldn't I?  The god curse just isn't necessary to the explanation of the phenomena.

If we're going to blame something for your failure, god doing something to me isn't at the top of my list.  You?

No, if simply having the sin nature would prevent you from hearing the truth, then no one could ever hear the truth. If I had to guess, I would say that at some point in your life you stepped over some line in your arrogance towards others, and for that God made you deaf and blind to the truth.

Some people hear the truth and can identify it as such, but they ignore it because their flesh hates it. That's probably the case for most people. Some people hear the truth and can't even identify it as such. It seems to me that that is where you're at, and no one gets there unless God has specifically denied them even this basic level of understanding. It's probably the case with many people on this site. Atheists are very prideful people, usually being fairly intelligent. Pride before the Lord always leads to destruction.

If you lack the patience or the ability to make sense of my comments, can you be morally responsible for failing to address my questions?

No. I'm not responsible for your salvation at all. That is God's responsibility. I can plant seeds, and I can water the seeds, but God gives the increase.

That doesn't mean I can't be held responsible if I treat you in a way I shouldn't, but I'm not your Savior, and as far as I know I've treated you fairly.

---

Where is it written that MilesA81 has the answers?

Where is it written that I don't?

[The Grand Nudger]

No, if simply having the sin nature would prevent you from hearing the truth, then no one could ever hear the truth.

I know, right?

If I had to guess, I would say that at some point in your life you stepped over some line in your arrogance towards others, and for that God made you deaf and blind to the truth.

Or...maybe...no god can be blamed for your failure. 50/50.

Some people hear the truth and can identify it as such, but they ignore it because their flesh hates it. That's probably the case for most people. Some people hear the truth and can't even identify it as such. It seems to me that that is where you're at, and no one gets there unless God has specifically denied them even this basic level of understanding. It's probably the case with many people on this site. Atheists are very prideful people, usually being fairly intelligent. Pride before the Lord always leads to destruction.

Do you need me for this part?

If you lack the patience or the ability to make sense of my comments, can you be morally responsible for failing to address my questions?

No. I'm not responsible for your salvation at all. That is God's responsibility. I can plant seeds, and I can water the seeds, but God gives the increase.

That doesn't mean I can't be held responsible if I treat you in a way I shouldn't, but I'm not your Savior, and as far as I know I've treated you fairly.

I never asked you about salvation, mostly because I'm uninterested.  I'm asking you to explain how we can be morally responsible if we're morally incompetent.  This should be a trivial bit of minutiae - not an insurmountable intellectual obstacle.  Literally nothing to do with gods or with salvation.

Nada.

[MilesAbbott81]

I never asked you about salvation, mostly because I'm uninterested.  I'm asking you to explain how we can be morally responsible if we're morally incompetent.  This should be a trivial bit of minutiae - not an insurmountable intellectual obstacle.  Literally nothing to do with gods or with salvation.

Nada.

Yes, that much has been quite clear to me. How could someone who is happy with their lot be interested in salvation? Only once misery has made its indelible mark will you become interested.

And I know your question, and you've heard my answer. I think we're done here.