Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: December 11, 2024, 5:35 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
How far reaching are God's powers?
RE: How far reaching are God's powers?
(November 12, 2020 at 12:24 pm)Angrboda Wrote:
(November 12, 2020 at 12:19 pm)MilesAbbott81 Wrote: . . . . .

I have two questions for you Miles:

1) Has God ever caused suffering for someone who, not having free will, committed sin?

2) If you were wrong in your thinking about God, how would you discover and determine that you were wrong?

1) Of course.

2) Well, I've staked my life on being right about God, so if I'm wrong, then I will pay for it with my life.
Reply
RE: How far reaching are God's powers?
You'll pay with your life either way. None of us get out of here breathing.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
RE: How far reaching are God's powers?
(November 12, 2020 at 12:21 pm)HappySkeptic Wrote: Imagine that I set up a test of prayer, in a way that isn't known to the participants.  Their own hearts may or not be pure, but it isn't dependent on me doing the test.  As long as some of them have a pure heart, prayer must have an effect or the hypothesis of prayer is false.

Now, if God realizes that I'm performing a test, and ignores the prayers of people with honest hearts, what sort of god is that?

Your scenario hinges on too many what ifs. Who says God will allow you to set up the test in the first place, or if He does, who says He will give you a single participant with a sincere heart? He is, after all, in full control of your actions and thus in control of the experiment itself.

(November 12, 2020 at 12:21 pm)HappySkeptic Wrote: What is more likely -- that God purposefully acts to make sure there is no evidence of His actions, or that there is no evidence because no such actions have taken place?

I don't think you thought this one through. How could you ever know which? Doesn't matter what is likely, you're attempting an unprovable experiment.


(November 12, 2020 at 12:21 pm)HappySkeptic Wrote: Everyone that believes in an active God has an theory for how God works in the world.  But almost none bother to check if their theory is already invalidated by the existing evidence.  Those that realize that prayer or faith or good-living doesn't stop tragedy come up with all sorts of excuses like "God works in mysterious ways".

That's why I find that most zealots tend to be young or new believers.  Those who have had a life of experience have evidence that good and bad happens to everyone regardless of faith or goodness.

Well, it might seem that good or bad happens to everyone regardless of faith, but how do you know that's the case? How do you know that people you think have faith actually have faith? I can tell you that nominal Christendom is bursting at the seams with unbelievers who are deceived into thinking they have a relationship with God when they don't. In fact, there are very, very few people in the world today with genuine faith. You have to enter through the narrow gate - few find it.

I can't exactly blame anyone for being discouraged or disenfranchised from Christianity since there are so few genuine Christians. There is a lot of hypocrisy and ignorance going on. But anyone genuinely penitent will find God, or He is a liar. People don't find Him because they aren't genuinely penitent.

(November 12, 2020 at 12:31 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: You'll pay with your life either way.  None of us get out of here breathing.

True, but I've gone through much suffering seeking the Lord. I have, in fact, already lost my life, so at least from your perspective, I am already the loser.
Reply
RE: How far reaching are God's powers?
(November 12, 2020 at 12:38 pm)MilesAbbott81 Wrote: Well, it might seem that good or bad happens to everyone regardless of faith, but how do you know that's the case?
By reference to facts of the matter.  

Quote:How do you know that people you think have faith actually have faith?
I suspect that a great many do not by reference to facts of the matter of them.

Quote:I can't exactly blame anyone for being discouraged or disenfranchised from Christianity since there are so few genuine Christians. There is a lot of hypocrisy and ignorance going on. But anyone genuine penitent will find God, or He is a liar. People don't find Him because they aren't genuinely penitent.
Do you think that you're among the few true christians, or the majority disingenuous?  Do you think that your own self assessment (either way) is similar to others perceptions of you, by reference to the facts of the matter of you? Facts like being a liar, for example?

Or, if you prefer, maybe these ultimatums you keep delivering to the divine are nonsense? Genuine pentitents will find your god or god is a liar? Bullshit. Maybe someone lied to you about people or about god - your mind immediately drifts to god the liar, though. Maybe you're the someone, lying now, to everyone here.

Some Fucking Christian. Jerkoff
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
RE: How far reaching are God's powers?
(November 12, 2020 at 12:41 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Do you think that you're among the few true christians, or the majority disingenuous?  Do you think that your own self assessment (either way) is similar to others perceptions of you, by reference to the facts of the matter of you? Facts like being a liar, for example?

Well, yes, I think so. I don't know so, as no one can, but if I didn't believe I were one of the few I wouldn't speak as I do, now would I? And I've already said that the majority are disingenuous.

My assessment of myself is of course different from how others will assess me, depending on where they're at faith-wise. Those who are of God will hear me; those who are not will not. As the Scriptures say, "We are from God. Whoever knows God listens to us; whoever is not from God does not listen to us. That is how we know the Spirit of truth and the spirit of deception." (1 John 4:6)

I don't know what you mean by "by reference to the facts of the matter to you?"
Reply
RE: How far reaching are God's powers?
I think that it's more likely that jesus never knew you.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
RE: How far reaching are God's powers?
(November 12, 2020 at 12:41 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Genuine pentitents will find your god or god is a liar?  Bullshit.  Maybe someone lied to you about people or about god - your mind immediately drifts to god the liar, though.  Maybe you're the someone, lying now, to everyone here.

I could by lying, of course that's a possibility. But you would know that I'm not if God were to give you to know it...that's the only way to know.

"You will seek Me and find Me, when you seek Me with all your heart." (Jeremiah 29:13)

According to the Scriptures, it is most certainly not bullshit.
Reply
RE: How far reaching are God's powers?
(November 12, 2020 at 12:38 pm)MilesAbbott81 Wrote: I can't exactly blame anyone for being discouraged or disenfranchised from Christianity since there are so few genuine Christians. There is a lot of hypocrisy and ignorance going on. But anyone genuinely penitent will find God, or He is a liar. People don't find Him because they aren't genuinely penitent.

Says the zealot who believes only he and those who think like him have Truth.

I am in favor of everyone having their own "meaning-making myth".  Everyone needs to come to terms with mortality, and find happiness and purpose in life.

I'm not in favor of everyone having their own claims to "Truth".  There are so few genuine Christians?  You are just part of another Christian splinter group, every one declaring the others as heretics.  None can prove their claims, because there is no evidence of gods at all.

If you lived in India, you would probably be a Hindu zealot right now.
Reply
RE: How far reaching are God's powers?
(November 12, 2020 at 12:54 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: I think that it's more likely that jesus never knew you.

It's certainly a possibility.
Reply
RE: How far reaching are God's powers?
Since we cant get a decent convo out of this nutter, Imma run with you Skep. I disagree about everyone having their own meaning-making myth. We see that this nutballs meaning making myth includes the idea that people can be morally responsible for things they don't have any choice in, for things they don't control, even if they are moral incompetents.

We know how that played out in history and the present. If having their own meaning making myths mean that, then it's a hard pass.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply



Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Who goes to hell - as far as those pious Bible Christians are concerned? Dundee 71 8888 June 14, 2020 at 12:41 pm
Last Post: Paleophyte
  Far right Catholic group worried about being banned. Jehanne 14 2371 August 24, 2018 at 9:08 am
Last Post: Abaddon_ire
  So It Seems That This Jesus Freak Corporation's Religious Beliefs Only Go So Far Minimalist 11 2618 July 6, 2017 at 1:24 pm
Last Post: Minimalist
  Review so far of the Romans study Drich 199 39900 December 18, 2015 at 12:17 pm
Last Post: TheRocketSurgeon
  Does Calvinism make the most sense as far as Christianity Goes? The Batlord 63 19026 August 16, 2015 at 10:14 am
Last Post: Redbeard The Pink
  Why Ancient Aliens is far more plausible than Christianity FreeTony 30 5681 July 27, 2014 at 11:54 am
Last Post: Dystopia
  God is god, and we are not god StoryBook 43 13912 January 6, 2014 at 5:47 pm
Last Post: StoryBook
  God get's angry, Moses changes God's plans of wrath, God regrets "evil" he planned Mystic 9 7201 February 16, 2012 at 8:17 am
Last Post: Strongbad
  £3 Million that could be towards far better causes darkwolf176 14 3771 May 26, 2010 at 11:47 am
Last Post: Thor



Users browsing this thread: 6 Guest(s)