A really hard question on Satan and deception.

[Minimalist]

I do not whine

You do nothing else.

[Godscreated]

She knew it was wrong and she did it anyway. Adam knew it was wrong but listened to his wife instead of God. They broke the fellowship and brought death into the world. They reaped what they sowed.

How did Adam and Eve know it was wrong if they had no concept of good and evil until they ate of the tree?

How can they be faulted for not knowing (not having the 'knowledge') of right and wrong. One cannot commit a sin without the knowledge that it is a sin.

They knew the difference between what was right and wrong, God told them not to eat of the tree or there would be consequences (death) to disobeying God. Adam said this to Eve and Eve said this to the serpent, they gave proof they knew it was wrong and to know what is wrong is to know what is right. If you cared to read and study the account given in scripture and then reason just a little you like the children in my church would understand. Knowing what is right and wrong doesn't mean that they knew good from evil. A child knows when it's told not to touch something that it would be wrong to touch said thing, that in no way means they know what is good and evil. Thank God for the innocents of small children that we as adults can see a glimpse of what God's plan for His creation was and how this world could have been.

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I gave you the chapters to read, you think that one verse is all you need to find truths in scripture and you are wrong as usual, do not be so lazy and read the chapters. If I were to take a science book and pluck out one sentence and say see this proves that (being whatever) can't be true and if I had taken the time to read further and study what I read I would have seen it to be true. So why do you refuse to do the same. Tell me how is it that an atheist who does not believe what scriptures teach thinks he is an expert on them, now that's what I consider a person deceived.

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I have read the bible and that is how I know you have added to it.
You lied.

Regards
DL

You really have no clue do you. Sorry that you can't read what I have given you, guess laziness must be you dessert. I will no longer responded to what you have to say on this OP if you want do as you said you would.

[Greatest I am]

She knew it was wrong and she did it anyway. Adam knew it was wrong but listened to his wife instead of God. They broke the fellowship and brought death into the world. They reaped what they sowed.

How did Adam and Eve know it was wrong if they had no concept of good and evil until they ate of the tree?

How can they be faulted for not knowing (not having the 'knowledge') of right and wrong. One cannot commit a sin without the knowledge that it is a sin.

They knew the difference between what was right and wrong, God told them not to eat of the tree or there would be consequences (death) to disobeying God. Adam said this to Eve and Eve said this to the serpent, they gave proof they knew it was wrong and to know what is wrong is to know what is right. If you cared to read and study the account given in scripture and then reason just a little you like the children in my church would understand. Knowing what is right and wrong doesn't mean that they knew good from evil. A child knows when it's told not to touch something that it would be wrong to touch said thing, that in no way means they know what is good and evil. Thank God for the innocents of small children that we as adults can see a glimpse of what God's plan for His creation was and how this world could have been.

Do you find it strange that the talking snake gave A & E more information than God did?
God did not give them full disclosure. A lie of omission.

Nothing of their eyes being opened, a good thing, nothing of becoming like God, a good thing, nothing of the other consequences except for a dying that did not happen. A lie.

Stay blind and deceived.

No wonder then that the writers of the story, the Jews, who have more authority in Genesis than Christians, saw Eden as our elevation and not the fall that Christianity has tried to profit from.

Regards
DL

[Captain Scarlet]

I do not whine

The lady protests too much me thinks.....

and as I said the evidence that I could give you would not be the proof you would accept, so what's up with you CS.

You have NO evidence worthy of the name just your own subjective experience and a lot of assertions.

I did not come on this forum to prove God exist to you or anyone else, that is what God does.

You did not come on an atheist forum (the main purpose of which is to debate the existence or not of a god or gods) to debate the existence of god or gods. And as a theist, who I gladly welcome as it would be a terminally boring place if we couldn't debate each other, you do not wish to bat for god? God doesn't prove his existence sir, that's why there are atheists in the first place and theists who want to believe but secretly don't. In response to this your only recourse is to say if we 'did it right we would believe' ie either you are right or we are wrong, not much of a point or an argument is it?

I will defend what I know to be the truth whether you like it or not,

I like it just fine. But you do not defend truth you assert it, based on no evidence nor reasoning, then refuse to admit that there is room for error in your worldview. Then proudly announce you don't come on here to defend it just espouse what you 'know'. For the upteenth time you do not 'know', you cannot possibly know that god exists, what god wants, what god is. You may believe, but you cannot know. Even your own theology states ultimately it's a matter of faith. Sophisticated theologians who can make cases for god/s happily admit they do not and cannot know. So drop the arrogance.

just because you do not want to believe

So wvery wrong...I have reasoned my way to atheism. You evidently appear not to have reasoned your way to theism, but accept it blindly. You should know what it is like to disbelieve religions as you reject all but one. Why is it so hard to imagine that I reject all of them as they all lack rational arguments for their truth claims and hard evidence. Whereas for me atheism has both, it cannot currently land a knockout blow given the modernist definitions of gods because they've almost been painted out of existence. First god was a mountain, tehn in the clouds, then in heaven, then in a supernatural realm, then that realm is outside of spacetime (where guess what we can never prove he doesn't exist), no a serious theologian has even stated that the final 'proof' of gods greatness, is that he doesn't need to exist. Yep only reality can get in the way of such arguments.

does not invalidate what I know.

You do not and cannot possibly know what you claim. It is the height of arrogance to claim you can know these things. You believe only, and my claim is that your beliefs are not justified.

Hear this clearly I know without a doubt that the Father, Christ and the Holy Spirit do exist and are who they say they are, one God in three Persons.

I'm all ears preacher! No you do not know that. You have offered no reason nor evidence why we should believe that you know that. Your claims can therefore be summarily dismissed.

So I do not boohoo because atheist do not believe,

Yet you bemoan that atheists wouldn't listen to you anyway, and that even though you have tried you know where we are going and you feel sorry for us. You whine, moan and play the victim. Yet you never argue for your god.

I do however feel bad that you do not because I know positively what your eternal destination will be and it makes me sad.

No you don't. If I am right then there is no eternal destination and I feel sorry for you that you have so wasted the one life you do have in the only reality that exists, and that you delude yourself and donate your time, energy and probably money (cash is always involved in any con). If I'm wrong then at least I would have been honest and shown integrity, given that I genuinely DO NOT believe in a god. Maybe that will allow me to rest a little more comfortably than the fawning sycophants and religious demagogues that infect your faith.

I have presented a loving savior as many others have

You have presented nothing, absolutely nothing. You have not argued for your beliefs. You have merely asserted things you cannot know or believe you know based on your own subjectivity.

and if you refuse to believe then you have made a decision for yourself and the consequences fall on you.

Well at least that is true.

[Cyberman]

As far as I'm concerned reading anything from holy books is a pointless exercise, because every time I do it there's always some pre-programmed religious drone who tells me I'm doing it wrong. Either it's nitpicking issues of what a word actually means instead of what it would normally mean in any other situation; or it's "out of context" because any reference that paints the book in anything other than a perfect light - rape or slavery or whatnot - is actually talking about nice, fluffy things if only I knew how to read properly; or it's nonliteral and symbolic poetry that I can only understand if I swallow the red pill and have some mystical hallucination telling me which bits are which. It's a pathetic, childish game in which heads: you win, tails: I lose and you wonder why we come across as angry? For the record: I'm not angry, I just refuse to play. Sue me.

[IATIA]

They knew the difference between what was right and wrong, God told them not to eat of the tree or there would be consequences (death) to disobeying God.

Wrong! Gotta actually read the bible to play in our yard.

Adam and Eve had not yet ate from the tree of knowledge so they did not know right from wrong and they had not yet ate from the tree of life so they were going to die anyway.

And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

[Godscreated]

They knew the difference between what was right and wrong, God told them not to eat of the tree or there would be consequences (death) to disobeying God.

Wrong! Gotta actually read the bible to play in our yard.

Adam and Eve had not yet ate from the tree of knowledge so they did not know right from wrong and they had not yet ate from the tree of life so they were going to die anyway.

And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Surely you can't be serious, the only way you can read that into scripture is with blinders on.
NAS Gen.2:16-17 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, "From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you shall surely die.
Gen.3:2-3 And the woman said to the serpent, "From the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat; but from the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God has said, 'You shall not eat from it or touch it, lest you die.' "

Both these passages show that they had been told not to eat the fruit or they would die. They ate and lost their pure spiritual lives and they also had death come into their lives. This is why God would not allow them to eat from the tree of life, they would have had an eternal life that was sin filled and what a miserable life that would have been, God granted them His grace by not allowing them to eat of the tree of life. Actually this is the hell that nonbelievers will live, eternity in sin and misery. Eve demonstrates that they knew it was wrong to eat from the tree of good and evil. Adam and Eve died a spiritual death when they ate the fruit and then later in life would physically die. I do not know how many times scripture tells us that spiritual death is separation from God but it's many times, and because God can not be in the presence of sin, we've become separated from Him because of Adam and Eve's disobedience. This is simple why can you not understand it. This i the reason that Christ came and redeemed us through His death and resurrection.

[IATIA]

So god lied. That is what Satan said. If you notice, my quote was from the same book as yours.

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They ate and lost their pure spiritual lives and they also had death come into their lives. This is why God would not allow them to eat from the tree of life,

That is not what I read.

And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

They were going to die anyway.

Satan told the truth and god lied.

Your book, not mine.

[Minimalist]

They ate and lost their pure spiritual lives and they also had death come into their lives.

Yet you insist there is a fucking god who punishes everyone for the "sin" of these two shitheads.

I don't know who is a bigger scumbag. You or your "god."

[IATIA]

God can not be in the presence of sin

I missed that part. Something else your god cannot do. Not much of an all powerful wizard is he! He really cannot do much of anything except lie, kill, punish and torture. This is one despicable entity you have created to worship.