Chauvin Murder Trial

[Brian37]

Nobody in this thread has ever claimed white people never die by the hands of police. But there is a huge ratio disparity as to risk of death when interacting with police. Once as a teen I had a full size replica toy cap gun, no re noses required at the time back in the 80s. Cops were called  because someone thought I was firing a real gun. Cop jumped out of his car pointed his gun at me, BUT waited for me to explain it was a toy and didn't shoot me. Another time in my early 20s I got pulled over for speeding, made the mistake of mouthing off, but made it to the police station alive and released unharmed. The disorderly was dropped, but I still had to pay the traffic ticket. They didn't even pull a gun on me during that. 

Sandra Bland however, died in police custody over a minor traffic pull over she confronted the cop verbally and got arrested for it. Just this weekend a black Lt military EMT was pulled over for an improper mounting of his temorary tag. That Lt was smart in putting his hands out of the window. He shouldn't have had to though considering it was not a fellony stop. Point is, that Lt would have been more likely to be shot than I would have under similar circumstances.

So when you say whites get roughed up, and or shot sometimes, it is still nowhere near the rate blacks have to worry about.

Blacks and whites actually get killed by police at a very similar rate compared to interactions with police. All those extra interactions cause bullshit like them being way more likely than whites to go to jail for drug possession while the races use at a similar rate, but at the same time, poor black areas are obviously policed more because that's where the gang activity is.

You bring up Tamir Rice. The sad thing about that is that there actually are 12 year old kids walking around with real guns, in gangs. That's the screwed up reality. Instead of literal reparations (although UBI may not be such a bad idea, for all races though obviously) where the money will be wasted and you'll be right back in the same situation, poor black people need useful reparations like major investment in the community and schools so 12 year olds hopefully aren't walking around with guns.

I know very well how cops can be pricks. When I was 12, a cop threatened to arrest me if I didn't snitch and tell him about a fight I had witnessed. I said go ahead and do it. No snitching. There is no evidence of any racism in what happened to George Floyd. You and the media are just making that connection because you want it to be true. You don't know it to be true. If it was another white guy killed or mentally challenged guy killed, you wouldn't be calling it Antebellum bullshit, and we can't specifically say that race had anything to do with Floyd dying, or for that matter we can't say that racism would have anything to do with Derek Chauvin being found not guilty. There are black people on the jury. Dude took a bunch of drugs. When you do that and you end up dying by a not as obvious means as a gunshot, you're not going to necessarily get the benefit of the doubt. Beyond reasonable doubt is a high standard to clear.

BULLSHIT. 

There is no "same rate". There is only your false perception of a "same rate".

[brewer]

Blacks and whites actually get killed by police at a very similar rate compared to interactions with police. [edit]

Got a source on that?

I have a source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6080222/

And this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_use...l_patterns

Oops, not a similar rate.

[*Deidre*]

Today’s final use of force expert witness really makes me wonder if Chauvin will get murder. Probably third degree. I had thought for a while that manslaughter was appropriate, but third degree unintentional murder seems like a possible outcome. He walked through each clip and you get to the clip where Chauvin is telling a fellow officer “no, he’s staying like this,” when asked if they should reposition him onto his side. Another officer telling him towards the end, that Floyd had no pulse.

To me, that’s game over. Defense is doing its job trying to pick it apart but those videos are what they are. A reasonable officer wouldn’t have caused or let a suspect die.

[Irreligious Atheist]

Blacks and whites actually get killed by police at a very similar rate compared to interactions with police. [edit]

Got a source on that?

I have a source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6080222/

And this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_use...l_patterns

Oops, not a similar rate.

https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/fu...leUi=0&

[The Grand Nudger]

All those extra interactions cause bullshit like them being way more likely than whites to go to jail for drug possession while the races use at a similar rate, but at the same time, poor black areas are obviously policed more because that's where the gang activity is.

Is it.....?   Do you think that there's more or less organization and money behind a gated communities drug habits?

Let's consider this for a moment. Do you think the trial would (more reliably) go one way or the other if Floyd were the resident of a gated community? Is it on account of any actual difference in criminality, or is it simple matter of address? In short and in sum, how do you square the assumption of the beginning of that sentence with the conclusion at it's end?

To be blunt, you seem deeply confused.

[Rev. Rye]

Here's the official federal guidelines for use of deadly force. There are circumstances that would permit deadly force. That said, Floyd wasn't attacking the cops or anyone else, I doubt Cup Foods had anything that could be considered "special nuclear material," and I don't think he had the idea to escape and do any of these things.

And, if those federal guidelines only apply to US Marshals, here's the guidelines for the state of Minnesota. Here's the relevant section:

Subd. 2.Use of deadly force.

(a) Notwithstanding the provisions of section 609.06 or 609.065, the use of deadly force by a peace officer in the line of duty is justified only if an objectively reasonable officer would believe, based on the totality of the circumstances known to the officer at the time and without the benefit of hindsight, that such force is necessary:

(1) to protect the peace officer or another from death or great bodily harm, provided that the threat:

(i) can be articulated with specificity by the law enforcement officer;

(ii) is reasonably likely to occur absent action by the law enforcement officer; and

(iii) must be addressed through the use of deadly force without unreasonable delay; or

(2) to effect the arrest or capture, or prevent the escape, of a person whom the peace officer knows or has reasonable grounds to believe has committed or attempted to commit a felony and the officer reasonably believes that the person will cause death or great bodily harm to another person under the threat criteria in clause (1), items (i) to (iii), unless immediately apprehended.

So, unless George Floyd was an imminent danger to Chauvin and co. or civilians and this was the only way he could keep people safe and he could have stated this at the time, the use of deadly force was not permissible. And even if (and I'm using the closest thing I can imagine to a reasonable circumstance in this case) he was hell-bent on going back to his own car, high on Fentanyl and was likely to run over a bunch of people (and, I should reiterate, I don't think this is likely) AND Chauvin knew this, then, why not just shoot him? Seriously, if done right, it can kill damn near instantly. Somehow, I doubt that putting him in a chokehold for 9:29 is a sane method of committing lethal justice, especially since you could probably just handcuff him in that time.

[Irreligious Atheist]

All those extra interactions cause bullshit like them being way more likely than whites to go to jail for drug possession while the races use at a similar rate, but at the same time, poor black areas are obviously policed more because that's where the gang activity is.

Is it.....?   Do you think that there's more or less organization and money behind a gated communities drug habits?

Let's consider this for a moment.  Do you think the trial would (more reliably) go one way or the other if Floyd were the resident of a gated community?  Is it on account of any actual difference in criminality, or is it simple matter of address?  In short and in sum, how do you square the assumption of the beginning of that sentence with the conclusion at it's end?

To be blunt, you seem deeply confused.

Around 3 percent of the American population commits around half of the violent crime and half of the murders. 81 % of black Americans want police to spend as much or more time in their area https://news.gallup.com/poll/316571/blac...sence.aspx

[Rev. Rye]

Huh, only three percent? Because when I hear that stat, it's usually 13 percent.

[Irreligious Atheist]

Huh, only three percent?  Because when I hear that stat, it's usually 13 percent.

Nope. Not 13. Babies and old ladies and old men aren't doing the killing. It's usually males between the ages of 13 and 35 or something similar to that. Around 3 percent of the American population.

Edit- And lol at numeric hate symbols. Stats are not hate symbols. Sometimes hateful people bring up stats to justify their hatred. Big difference. The ADL is a crock of shit.

[The Grand Nudger]

No such thing as a judicial killing in minnessota..and yet........

At any rate, you're right. Scant few americans are murderers, so..perhaps, cops treating every person like they're a murderer is...wrong? Perhaps defense of cops on the basis of the idea that everyone they interact with is a potential murderer......is wrong?