|
Mormon: "There is no such thing as rape."
|
Anymouse
Worshipper of Caffeinea, Goddess of Coffee.  Religious Views: Atheist (formerly Wiccan, with a Discordian bent). Erotic Romance novel editor. Handfasted to BethK, the smartest, coolest, sexiest, brightest atheist here. Ok, so chastity belts for all then. Gotcha. Starting at age zero for both sexes. Those infants are just asking for it. "Be ye not lost amongst Precept of Order." - Book of Uterus, 1:5, "Principia Discordia, or How I Found Goddess and What I Did to Her When I Found Her."  RE: Mormon: "There is no such thing as rape."
November 17, 2011 at 5:12 am
(This post was last modified: November 17, 2011 at 5:15 am by edk.)
(November 17, 2011 at 5:01 am)Anymouse Wrote:(November 16, 2011 at 10:01 pm)edk141 Wrote: I agree, but on the other hand, it pisses me off when some people take this too far and say we as a society shouldn't try to teach women to get raped less. Sure, it may not be their fault, but anything that decreases the number of rapes is good imo. FFFFFFFF- I think you're missing my point. Of course it is the rapist's fault and nobody else's. Taking rapists off the streets is a fine aim, but short of having about one police officer per citizen, I'm not sure how you intend to do it, it's not as if we have been deliberately leaving them on the streets up to now. Bad things happen, just because it isn't the fault of the victim of a crime doesn't mean they shouldn't try to avoid it. (November 17, 2011 at 5:05 am)ElDinero Wrote:(November 17, 2011 at 4:59 am)edk141 Wrote: I'm not proposing anything, I just get annoyed with feminists saying that. I mean being taught how not to get raped (if it's even possible) doesn't have any downsides, right? It's just pragmatic. Honestly ElD, I don't know, I haven't noticed society teaching women not to get raped. But lots of people seem to think it does, and all I was trying to say is that if it makes less people get raped I don't see the problem. (November 17, 2011 at 5:10 am)Anymouse Wrote: It's funny how when one brings up a subject such as rape, a lot of other people's words inexplicably find their way to one's mouth. 
I agree with edk141. In an ideal world, rape would not happen. We don't live in an ideal world. Just as everyone should lock their door to prevent a burglary, every potential rape victim should carry some sort of protection (rape alarm, pepper spray, etc). It doesn't mean it's their fault if they get raped, but it might just decrease the chances of that happening in the first place.
But we know that, that is never going to happen Adrian. Some people just can't keep their sexual desires in perspective and under control and we have a religion called islam that tries to do that (rather unsuccessfully I think)
 Sometimes I think I have been born in the wrong century
"The Universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." G'Kar-B5
 RE: Mormon: "There is no such thing as rape."
November 17, 2011 at 11:54 am
(This post was last modified: November 17, 2011 at 12:00 pm by Violet.)
Ziploc Wrote:Poor quality but very good written (he appeared to be reading from a script) content. Being an impromptu actress with a flair for presentation: I cannot respect someone reading a script, no matter how well written. At most I can accept notes to occasionally glance at, though I would never use them myself. If you're going to use a script: MEMORIZE YOUR LINES. Know the content well enough to give an IMPASSIONED PRESENTATION. Make it so that the audience DOES NOT REALIZE YOU'RE READING A SCRIPT. Pet peeve  (November 16, 2011 at 10:01 pm)edk141 Wrote: I agree, but on the other hand, it pisses me off when some people take this too far and say we as a society shouldn't try to teach women to get raped less. Sure, it may not be their fault, but anything that decreases the number of rapes is good imo. Just as we teach people to lock their doors so that they don't get stolen from, or to not insult angry people with guns so as to not get shot. (November 17, 2011 at 4:54 am)ElDinero Wrote: Women staying indoors would decrease the number of rapes. What are you actually proposing? As one who often did, I would say this isn't at all true. It's warmer inside, more comfy, more 'private'. More likely to have sexual arousal there in the first place. Would you rather masturbate to porn inside or outside.
Please give me a home where cloud buffalo roam
Where the dear and the strangers can play
Where sometimes is heard a discouraging word
But the skies are not stormy all day
(November 17, 2011 at 4:59 am)Shell B Wrote: I believe he is proposing that they dress less slutty. Apparently, very few people are aware that rape has nothing to do with what a woman is wearing. We have had this conversation on these forums before. And some of them disagree with 'has nothing to do with it' from more experience than they'd like to number. In some cases it has little to do with it, in some cases it's somewhat central to its occurrence. You'll notice I dress fantastically quite often nowadays, because I love doing it. Did you think I never did so in the past? Every time I went the extra mile to look amazing I was made later to regret it horribly. Often times it can happen when you're willing to have sex, but (understandably) you have limits on where you will go at the time. Being forced to deepthroat because someone else has you tightly and painfully by the hair and you have no control and you can't do anything to stop it under threat of being hit and at first you try to push away and you're smacked in response... that's as much rape as not wanting sex at all and being forced to engage in it. Some of the time it really doesn't matter what you're wearing, can be fucking winter out and you just got inside and are still wearing winter clothes and it happens. But I call that these are a tiny minority of the time, and that it occurs when they're in the mood for sex in the first place or are made to be in the mood by how sexy the presentation of your body is (and clothes are a tool that adds to presentation, listen to the costume-maker/impromptu actress here). It doesn't always (it doesn't even often) not enter into the equation. It is a sexual domination. and should think I know the difference given that I was plenty physically dominated outside of sex as well. Beating, shoving, slapping, throwing, crushing, tickle torture, binding, biting, yanking on hair or a shirt collar.... these are demonstrations of physical domination that is not necessarily sexual. It can be as a part of rape, but it doesn't have to be for rape to occur. Sometimes one can reach the point where they don't have the will to fight it any longer and they just do whatever they are told to do out of terror, hollowness, and patheticness. There's strictly emotional domination (abuse) too, which can also be a part of rape, but isn't necessarily so. Mocking, sneering, jeering, constant failure to cuddle or hug or kiss, ordering, devaluing, jealousy if I was ever with someone else (that never worked out well for me either), threatening, ignoring, really horrible things to say or do to a transwoman, making me promise not to start hormone therapy when I was 14 (breaking promises is usually a bad idea in such situations), using someone for money and entertainment, refusing to share a bed with at night (even after having sex with them)... all of this can (and often does) happen during rape, but it can all be done by itself, and rape doesn't require it to happen. All the more horrible was his always 'encouraging' I be myself and to 'rule my own life' while punishing me endlessly for trying for it. To say nothing of social domination. I didn't have more than a handful of "friends" throughout my entire middleschool and highschool and even the beginning of my college. This isn't (as I probably made it sound) because I didn't want them... it's entirely because any secret you try to keep from such people eventually gets back to them and hell hath no wrath like an angry tyrant. Eventually one becomes dependent on it since it is the ONLY option: every other option, even being alone, was ruthlessly exterminated. When your family doesn't accept you for yourself, and you have no friends to lean on (because you have no friends), and your a lonely and depressed girl with no hope for the future and no love of the present and with a past she only remembers horrible things out of... one can cling to the one something that accepts any part of her at all. And when that one something won't let one ever seek any other somethings... suicide is considered and rejected because she isn't even worth having death, and all she considers for her future is a long and childless future as little more than a toy. And yes... social domination can be a part of rape (an implied 'if call for help and wake my parents: you won't have me to turn to any longer... and your parents will add pity to their lack of acceptance of you. They'd probably send you off to some degaying camp to 'get better' since they don't think they have a daughter' shushing finger and glare).... but it doesn't have to be, and it is done by itself plenty. It irritates me endlessly when people tell me rape has nothing to do with sex. Most of mine had everything to do with it... they usually happened during sex in the first place or at the least the person I was with wanted it and I didn't and I had to anyway. Even the winter example was sexual: being stripped of my winter clothes and shirt and thrown barebacked into the fresh snow and held down there for what seemed like forever while he made me suck him off and swallow it... after which he left me lying there. Often feminists tell me rape is solely about domination... but I've been dominated in all sorts of ways, and rape is always with a sexual intent from everything I've experienced. Domination of rape isn't even always physical (note the times I engaged in sexual activity only because they wanted it and I was bullied into doing it without complaint when all I wanted to do was cry, and I got trained out of crying for being slapped for it)... but it is ALWAYS sexual. Whatever rapes are not sexual either happen to everyone lucky enough to not be me (and I've been raped by several men, and abused in all of my noted varieties by many whom I interacted with)... or are in such a minority of rapes that I can't even fathom how they would exist. Absurd that I can tell people I'm a transwoman with no difficulty, but I can scarcely force myself to say this without first asking a good friend of mine if it's written well, (I can't read back over what I wrote. It hurt enough the first time) and even then I don't want to say it and I have an intense desire just to X this window and forget about responding to this thread and I'm shaking reliving memories I suppressed for years because I never dealt with them then. It's why this has been both the best and worst month of my life... best because I found someone who does love me and who I love and who doesn't abuse me... worst because memories are flooding me that I'd forgotten, and I am reliving the ones I mostly ignored. I'm used to running away from anything I can't deal with, always hiding behind a facade, forever escaping reality as best as I can... I believe I have a quite solid understanding of the rapists who everyone seems to believe are monsters. They are model sons, academic geniuses, accepted and beloved children, dog lovers, vegetarians, community-minded, cool-headed, family men, wonderful brothers... Until they reach the bedroom with someone who has nowhere to go and who can't hurt them and who can't call for help from anywhere ever and who has nobody to tell and if she told somebody she'd encounter only a solid wall of unwillingness to do anything about it and would only make her own situation worse by speaking of it. Please give me a home where cloud buffalo roam
Where the dear and the strangers can play
Where sometimes is heard a discouraging word
But the skies are not stormy all day
 (November 17, 2011 at 1:45 pm)Vaeolet Lilly Blossom Wrote: I believe I have a quite solid understanding of the rapists who everyone seems to believe are monsters. They are model sons, academic geniuses, accepted and beloved children, dog lovers, vegetarians, community-minded, cool-headed, family men, wonderful brothers... Nothing more dangerous than a human who has the power to override someone else. In the end run, all predator wants is a victim, to control, to override, to instill despair. All else is negotiable. And nothing more enraging, than what I've read here on AF. From Allie's abuse to Sae's, verily my back hairs are raised, my face is red hot. My fists call for justice. And my mind, heart are touched. It is times like this I want to round up a small posse and pay certain... gentlemen... a small house call... Slave to the Patriarchy no more
I *kinda* see edk's viewpoint as it certainly can not hurt in anyway, to educate women on rape and how to possibly, maybe, potentially, lower the chances of it happening to them. He was not implying that she caused her own rape, he seemed to just be saying that it can only be beneficial for parents to educate kids or society to educate women on rape.
Certain educational ideas are my kids both know the real words for penis and vagina (not hoo hoo and pee pee) so that if someone ever touched them in those areas, there would be no doubt what they meant when they reported it. But, would that prevent it or just make it easier to prosecute the perpetrator? I guess it could help prevent it if the child had a discussion with an adult of where they were touched and that therefore ended the abuse before it got to rape. Also, you can teach your kids certain ways to fight back if they are pinned down like kneeing the man and screaming and kicking and running away and just the simple definition of what rape is so they can identify if it is happening to them. Like how you teach your kids that strangers can kidnap them.. same principal.. teach them that people they know and love can rape them and how wrong that is and how important it is for them to report that. But, when it comes down it, you really can't prevent and/or prepare for it 100%. You can be with a guy that you think is nice and sweet. And the next minute, he has you on the ground with your arms pinned behind your head and you are fighting with all of your strength to get him off of you. But, you are a small, weak teenage girl and he's a 250 pound marine. What prevented rape in this case? My friend heard me screaming as she was near us so he stopped. Had she not been there, I would've been raped. That was the closest I ever came to rape and it scared the freakin crap out of me. It's such a helpless feeling as a woman and I have so much sympathy for any woman that has been through that.
Anymouse
Worshipper of Caffeinea, Goddess of Coffee. Religious Views: Atheist (formerly Wiccan, with a Discordian bent). Erotic Romance novel editor. Handfasted to BethK, the smartest, coolest, sexiest, brightest atheist here. (November 17, 2011 at 5:12 am)edk141 Wrote: It's funny how when one brings up a subject such as rape, a lot of other people's words inexplicably find their way to one's mouth. Not sure what you mean by this. Other's mayn't have an opinion? I am sorry, then, proceed, then, and I will bow out, and try to figure out how to teach children to avoid rape. Remember the original article, the girl who is referenced was a girl. "Be ye not lost amongst Precept of Order." - Book of Uterus, 1:5, "Principia Discordia, or How I Found Goddess and What I Did to Her When I Found Her." (November 17, 2011 at 1:45 pm)Vaeolet Lilly Blossom Wrote: Until they reach the bedroom with someone who has nowhere to go and who can't hurt them and who can't call for help from anywhere ever and who has nobody to tell and if she told somebody she'd encounter only a solid wall of unwillingness to do anything about it and would only make her own situation worse by speaking of it. (((HUGS))) Thank you for sharing your story. I know that was not easy. I can't imagine going through all of that. You are a very strong person. |
|
« Next Oldest | Next Newest »
|
