Posts: 1654
Threads: 5
Joined: September 26, 2018
Reputation:
12
RE: The problem with "Hate crimes".
February 11, 2022 at 1:52 pm
The OP brings up a good point. Since when does a person's motivation for a crime justify the act being a new and more heinous crime? Shouldn't the act itself be judged?
One line of reasoning is that a hate crime is something actually done against a whole group - not just one person, and is therefore more serious because of the potential for inspiring future harm.
I understand this, but then we are creating a new category of crime to deter others from targeting that same "group". Which groups get this protection? If a criminal hates a person, is this less of a crime than hating a group? Does extra punishment for hating a group actually stop hatred of that group?
I haven't made up my own mind, but it is something that almost never gets debated. It has been a point of faith for decades that hate crimes require extra punishment.
Posts: 9538
Threads: 410
Joined: October 3, 2018
Reputation:
17
RE: The problem with "Hate crimes".
February 11, 2022 at 2:02 pm
(This post was last modified: February 11, 2022 at 2:03 pm by onlinebiker.)
Proving someone committed a crime is hard enough.
Mucking the works up trying to prove WHY they did it seems a monumental waste of time. Who gives a swut?
Lock the fucker up and move on...
Posts: 67079
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: The problem with "Hate crimes".
February 11, 2022 at 2:04 pm
(February 11, 2022 at 1:37 pm)onlinebiker Wrote: By that metric anyone who has ever displayed bigotry or prejudice is guilty of a crime and deserving of jail time.
Displaying bigotry or prejudice isn't a crime at all, nor is having prejudiced or bigoted thoughts. The former wouldn't be a thoughtcrime even if it were a crime..and the latter would be a thoughtcrime, if it were a crime.
You're welcome.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 10835
Threads: 29
Joined: December 8, 2019
Reputation:
14
RE: The problem with "Hate crimes".
February 11, 2022 at 2:42 pm
(This post was last modified: February 11, 2022 at 2:43 pm by The Architect Of Fate.)
Quote:By that metric anyone who has ever displayed bigotry or prejudice is guilty of a crime and deserving of jail time.
That wasn't even what she was saying and no one going to get locked up for simply displaying bigotry. That's not how that works.
(February 11, 2022 at 2:04 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: (February 11, 2022 at 1:37 pm)onlinebiker Wrote: By that metric anyone who has ever displayed bigotry or prejudice is guilty of a crime and deserving of jail time.
Displaying bigotry or prejudice isn't a crime at all, nor is having prejudiced or bigoted thoughts. The former wouldn't be a thoughtcrime even if it were a crime..and the latter would be a thoughtcrime, if it were a crime.
You're welcome. Indeed it's not even what a hate crime is
"Change was inevitable"
Nemo sicut deus debet esse!
![[Image: Canada_Flag.jpg?v=1646203843]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=cdn.shopify.com%2Fs%2Ffiles%2F1%2F0630%2F5310%2F3332%2Fproducts%2FCanada_Flag.jpg%3Fv%3D1646203843)
“No matter what men think, abortion is a fact of life. Women have always had them; they always have and they always will. Are they going to have good ones or bad ones? Will the good ones be reserved for the rich, while the poor women go to quacks?”
–SHIRLEY CHISHOLM
Posts: 45917
Threads: 538
Joined: July 24, 2013
Reputation:
109
RE: The problem with "Hate crimes".
February 11, 2022 at 3:38 pm
(February 11, 2022 at 11:48 am)onlinebiker Wrote: What the supreme court may or may not have ruled is irrelevant.
That just says what is legal - not right or wrong.
By that 'logic', it is legal, but wrong, for you to own guns.
Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
Posts: 9915
Threads: 53
Joined: November 27, 2015
Reputation:
92
RE: The problem with "Hate crimes".
February 11, 2022 at 4:05 pm
(February 11, 2022 at 8:38 am)onlinebiker Wrote: They are at their root a thought crime.
If you sodomize a guy with a rotary air hammer - it is a crime - assault/sodomy.... If you do it because the guy is different than you - they then want to tag along an extra offense - you hate the guy.
What if you hate the guy - but don' t sodomize him. Why isn' t that thought still a crime?
Think that is silly?
Wait till the powers that be decide it is legit.
If you said " hate crime" in a US court 50 years ago you would have been laughed at.
I would have been laughed out of a courtroom 50 years ago if I said my husband raped me. Appealing to the past isn’t the argument you think it is. Or maybe it is, lol.
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”
Wiser words were never spoken.
Posts: 9538
Threads: 410
Joined: October 3, 2018
Reputation:
17
RE: The problem with "Hate crimes".
February 11, 2022 at 4:49 pm
(February 11, 2022 at 3:38 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: (February 11, 2022 at 11:48 am)onlinebiker Wrote: What the supreme court may or may not have ruled is irrelevant.
That just says what is legal - not right or wrong.
By that 'logic', it is legal, but wrong, for you to own guns.
Boru Why am I not surprised you think that?
Posts: 45917
Threads: 538
Joined: July 24, 2013
Reputation:
109
RE: The problem with "Hate crimes".
February 11, 2022 at 5:17 pm
(February 11, 2022 at 4:49 pm)onlinebiker Wrote: (February 11, 2022 at 3:38 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: By that 'logic', it is legal, but wrong, for you to own guns.
Boru Why am I not surprised you think that?
I don’t think that. You do. You said Supreme Court rulings are irrelevant to right and wrong.
Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
Posts: 12095
Threads: 125
Joined: January 11, 2010
Reputation:
45
RE: The problem with "Hate crimes".
February 11, 2022 at 6:01 pm
Hate crimes are not thought crimes.
Hate by itself is not a crime.
Hate crimes are when actual crimes are committed, and the perp's pre-existing bigoted views towards the group their victims belong to are treated either as a motive for the crime or as an aggravating factor.
For instance, expressing hatred towards gay people is not a crime. But if you assault a gay person because they're gay, that's a hate crime. It might also potentially be considered a hate crime if you just assaulted a random person who just happened to be gay for no real reason and you just happened to have a history of expressing homophobic views, but that's more controversial. Either way, hate crime has to involve a different actual crime.
Comparing the Universal Oneness of All Life to Yo Mama since 2010.
![[Image: harmlesskitchen.png]](https://i.postimg.cc/yxR97P23/harmlesskitchen.png)
I was born with the gift of laughter and a sense the world is mad.
Posts: 67079
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: The problem with "Hate crimes".
February 11, 2022 at 6:03 pm
(This post was last modified: February 11, 2022 at 6:03 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Controversial in discussion, perhaps - but not an issue in our legal system. Tons of people spend their whole life expressing bigoted views, then assault someone who fits the ire of those views, and don't get charged with hate crimes.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
|
