THE Gun Thread

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

And man, if he had brought a gun to the fight, man, that tank crew would have pissed their pants.
Its utterly pointless to try and reason with people like OLB. Its.pointless.

Uh.... If the brave Chinese man had weapons - he would have other options for resistance. He wouldn' t have to try blocking tanks with his body - a brave - but ultimately useless tactic. Do you think it would work in Ukraine?

Yup.



Boru

[onlinebiker]

Uh.... If the brave Chinese man had weapons - he would have other options for resistance. He wouldn' t have to try blocking tanks with his body - a brave - but ultimately useless tactic. Do you think it would work in Ukraine?

Yup.



Boru

Well big guy- you should go to Ukraine and make yourself a "roadblock for piece" (pun intended).

See how that works for you...

[The Grand Nudger]

Uh.... If the brave Chinese man had weapons - he would have other options for resistance. He wouldn' t have to try blocking tanks with his body - a brave - but ultimately useless tactic. Do you think it would work in Ukraine?

Ukraine is the only country in Europe where firearms are not regulated by statute. Everything related to firearms is regulated by Order №622 of the Ministry of Internal Affairs.
Citizens are permitted to own non-fully automatic rifles and shotguns as long as they are stored properly when not in use.
Handguns are illegal except for target shooting, those who hold concealed carry permits, and handguns awarded for service.[1] Concealed carry licenses are available, but are not normally issued unless a threat to life is present and can be proven.[2]
A license is required to own firearms, and a citizen may be issued a license if that person:

• is 25 years of age for rifle ownership, 21 years of age for smoothbore weapon ownership, 18 years of age for cold or pneumatic weapon ownership;
  
  
• has no criminal record;
  
  
• has no history of domestic violence;
  
  
• has no mental illness or history of mental illness;
  
  
• has a good reason (target shooting, hunting, collection).
  

Once a license is issued, all guns must be kept unloaded and in a safe.
Because of the lack of statutes regarding firearm ownership, authorities have great discretion when giving firearm licenses. The president and ministers often give guns to members of the elite, while making it hard for ordinary people to obtain them. It is estimated that more than 50,000 guns have been issued as presents from authorities.[3]
Gun owners are required by order to renew their licenses and registration of their guns every three years. Failure to comply will result in revocation of the license, as well as confiscation of guns. There is a 10-round magazine limit for rifles.[4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_law_in_Ukraine

That out of the way, it might be useful to point out that the brave man who stood up to a tank would have been entirely unlikely to use a rifle even if he could have gotten one..which he could have.  They were peace demonstrators......

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Yup.



Boru

Well big guy- you should go to Ukraine and make yourself a "roadblock for piece" (pun intended).

See how that works for you...

I assure you it wouldn’t be a completely novel experience for me. It wasn’t Ukraine, it was Northern Ireland. It wasn’t a tank, it was a Land Rover APC.

Boru

[Thumpalumpacus]

Would criminals respect laws?

Of course not. They don' t now.

You think they' re going to line up and register their guns - get licensed and insured like the proposals we hear - that only the law abiding will.follow?

At least with my way they won' t try buying guns from law abiding citizens.

Forcing all sales through FFLs is just more goddamned worthless paperwork and cost for the law abiding. Most shops charge between $25 and $50. 

Once again you want to punish the wrong people..

Yet your suggestions too rely upon laws which you acknowledge criminals will not abide. And who needs to buy from law-abiding citizens when a criminal can simply steal them?

[The Grand Nudger]

That's why, to employ a metaphor...if you really want to make sure that the level in a tank stays below some certain point...you don't draw lines on the sides. You drain the tank.

Outside of metaphor, criminals don't buy guns from law abiding people. People who sell guns to criminals are, themselves, committing a crime. They're "otherwise-law-abiding"...at best...but this is the main pipeline for guns in trace data. By the same token, concerns over criminals stealing guns are not well founded. That's just not how these guns are ending up in the data. We might imagine criminals (by their nature, whatever that means) would - but hypotheticals are irrelevent, because they just aren't. They're already criminals. Could do the thing. Aren't.

[Thumpalumpacus]

If I'm not mistaken, there's not a very strong correlation between either mental illness or one or two felonies and future gun violence.  More violent felonies correlate less well.  Lesser felonies don't tend to predict violent crime well.  Mental illness doesn't correlate at all as you're more likely to see gun violence from someone who isn't mentally ill, so he's got that backwards.  So all this biker bullshit about preserving gun ownership for the responsible is just a bunch of ass tooting.

Alcohol, on the other hand --

By contrast, alcohol misuse is much more of a risk factor for gun violence. A link between the two has been widely established in medical research:

A 2015 study from the University of California, Davis, found that death rates from alcohol-related gun violence were higher than those from car crashes.
Another study published in 1997 in the Journal of the American Medical Association found that non-drinkers living in a home with alcohol users were at increased risk of homicide.
Most recently, a 2019 UC Davis study found that California gun buyers with prior DUI convictions were more than 2.5 times more likely to be arrested later for violent crimes, including violent crimes using firearms.
Rose Kagawa, a professor at the UC Davis’s Department of Emergency Medicine, is the lead author on that last study.

Kagawa says while there’s a wealth of research linking alcohol use and violence, two studies over the last few years from UC Davis, including her most recent, have focused on what happens when guns are also easily accessible:

“If you think of our [gun] background check systems … they are a prediction tool to identify people at highest risk for committing future violence,” Kagawa said. “This study established DUI [conviction] as a risk factor for later being charged with a violent crime, including a violent crime with a firearm.”

[...]

And a 2013 meta-study found that on average, nearly half of homicide offenders were under the influence of alcohol when they committed the crime. For suicides, a recent study found that alcohol is present in about one third of all deaths.

A 2009 University of Maryland study found that a majority of domestic violence homicides were committed by a perpetrator under the influence of alcohol. Roughly 60% of all homicides involved a firearm according to the Department of Justice.

And another study from 2008 conducted by researchers at the University of New Mexico found that nearly half of perpetrators of domestic homicides had elevated blood alcohol levels. More than 60% of those homicides involved a firearm.

https://gunsandamerica.org/story/19/12/1...-violence/

[onlinebiker]

Would criminals respect laws?

Of course not. They don' t now.

You think they' re going to line up and register their guns - get licensed and insured like the proposals we hear - that only the law abiding will.follow?

At least with my way they won' t try buying guns from law abiding citizens.

Forcing all sales through FFLs is just more goddamned worthless paperwork and cost for the law abiding. Most shops charge between $25 and $50. 

Once again you want to punish the wrong people..

Yet your suggestions too rely upon laws which you acknowledge criminals will not abide. And who needs to buy from law-abiding citizens when a criminal can simply steal them?

Both my and the anti - gun faction do little to stop criminals and bad people from getting illegal source guns.

The anti gun people also keep good people from getting guns. They just make it so inconvenient many decide to forego jumping through the hoops and give up.

Or they buy from.criminals.

[The Grand Nudger]

That's a pretty direct acknowledgement that neither of these sides have any plan to solve a problem. So......why not drain the pool..instead of banning guns or writing ineffective laws? Why not employ a market based solution aimed squarely at the single largest determining factor in federal trace data?

[onlinebiker]

That's a pretty direct acknowledgement that neither of these sides have any plan to solve a problem.  So......why not drain the pool..instead of banning guns or writing ineffective laws?  Why not employ a market based solution aimed squarely at the single largest determining factor in federal trace data?

What' s your problem with locking up the people doing the unjustified shootings and the people who sold them the gun illegally in a deep dark hole and letting them rot there?