Even if theism is a failure, it's still superior to atheism

[The Architect Of Fate]

The Denial of death no more provides a single good argument against atheism and in favor of theism than a phone number written in magic marker on a napkin. It's pretentious drivel from cover to cover....

[arewethereyet]

-in case Root actually does need people to answer questions any lived experience as a human ought answer.....

I just got autodoors for my chickens.  Saves the worst hour of labor...ever.  Late at night when you're drunk and early in the morning when you're hung over.  So..for many shitty days on end I did that hour of labor so that..one day, I could sell some breeders, and with that cash, buy a machine that saves me the trouble of those shitty days nd that worst hour.  Do other people need more than this to go on living?

It's the simple things.  

[arewethereyet]

Your analysis doesn’t explain why vast numbers of non-religious people are able to experience fulfilling, satisfying lives while being fully aware of their own mortality.

There is a big difference between simply knowing that one will die one day, and being fully aware of it. Our subconscious is hardwired to function as if death never occurs  - I'll probably have to look up the article where I read that, but for now just take my word for it-. 

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Once you dig deeper to find out why these people led fulfilling lives, it's mostly due to luck -most of them probably didn't have some physical or mental disability, and/or were born to a rich family, and/or grew up in a favorable environment. Any advantage in life makes it easy for one to abstract away death and pretend it never happens -well, at least until it does happen. But what about people on the other side of the spectrum ? People who have a serious disadvantage in life, what would give them the inner momentum to move forward, under atheism or naturalism ? 

Take a young woman with a congenital deformity who grew up in a capitalist society -like yours. I am sure she would have dealt with all forms of bullying and discrimination throughout her life, and if these traumatizing events happen very early in her life, they can severely affect her psychological makeup, and leave her vulnerable and directly exposed to the neurosis of thinking about death. If the woman in this example were religious, she can at least take comfort in knowing that an all-powerful being is with her in the face of an unforgiving society, and that He can offer her long lasting rewards for her deeds, however small and insignificant. 

Absent religion, things are much more complicated for the poor woman, she is reduced to an inept element that is trivially easy to replace in a capitalist system, which is characterized by competitiveness and optimal allocation of resources. 

In short, a person with a congenital deformity loses all forms of capitalist competition AND will never be allocated to any useful function at any level of society. So, what kind of consolation does your worldview offer to these people ?

Have you ever met a woman? I only ask because you don’t seem to know much about them.

Boru

I know that being an experienced simp is something valuable in your culture. Well, not all cultures appreciate simps, you'll be highly revered in the country where I used to live, if you actually never got into a relationship - marriage notwithstanding, of course.

Not really much of a dilemma. All you have to do is create something that strikes such a chord with other people that they keep talking about it long after you're gone. You don't necessarily need a supreme being to help you do it.

Are you sure about this ? People still talk about Ted Bundy to this day, almost 30 years after his death. I think you misunderstood the OP and, mistakenly, thought that by transcending death I meant being famous among people. Well, no, not at all. People like Ted Bundy or Jeffrey Dahmer are reasonably famous, but I think we can both agree that their deeds don't really transcend space and time.

People talking about you long after your death is definitely not a good metric of how meaningful your life was.

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There are more than a few of us here who have come up close and personal with our own deaths.

You need to take your meds if you think I, among others, are just going to take your word for much of anything.

[The Grand Nudger]

Right? I like smooth reels on stiff rods and surface action. I like the way a big boat rolls offshore. I like the way that quilts smell when you pull them out, the first blush of autumn, from a cedar chest. I like simmering in a greenhouse. I cant stop moving, I have places to be and little things to set right.

[The Architect Of Fate]

I person who has actually faced death on multiple occasions and was well aware of it. This is all nonsense and is just ROOT's vain attempt to justify the cult he's joined. Atheism is a better option then Theism because we don't need to lie to ourselves and can face life as it is.

[The Architect Of Fate]

Right?  I like smooth reels on stiff rods and surface action.  I like the way a big boat rolls offshore.  I like the way that quilts smell when you pull them out, the first blush of autumn, from a cedar chest.   I like simmering in a greenhouse.  I cant stop moving, I have places to be and little things to set right.

And isn't that life 

[R00tKiT]

There are more than a few of us here who have come up close and personal with our own deaths.

You need to take your meds if you think I, among others, are just going to take your word for much of anything.

Okay, fine, since you insist.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar...1919306688

The first line in the abstract reads : "The human mind has an automatic tendency to avoid awareness of its mortality". 

I am actually surprised that you're doubting this point, as it's actually ammunition for the atheist : they might argue, using this observation, that the immortality of the soul is nothing but a reflection of our subconscious -which constantly tries to "forget" that death is a thing.

[The Grand Nudger]

It is(life), and I'm trying very hard to see this explication of belief as something other than the idea that...to Root, at least, Roots life would not even be worth living..if there were no god. Is this really an AF dot org kind of thing or should we be giving him a suicide hotline number?

@ the above - yeah, being consumed by the variable calculus of our mortality is rarely practical in actual life or death situations....aka every single moment we live and breathe...naturally. That's probably why I don't spend much time worrying about death. I know it's coming, I've been close before, I have no expectations because I have no OBE stories to tell about it. I'm busy living, not dying. I have no interest in leaving a good corpse behind me - whether that's judged by people or by gods in some childish cult.

[R00tKiT]

Right?  I like smooth reels on stiff rods and surface action.  I like the way a big boat rolls offshore.  I like the way that quilts smell when you pull them out, the first blush of autumn, from a cedar chest.   I like simmering in a greenhouse.  I cant stop moving, I have places to be and little things to set right.

The enthusiasm is admirable, as expressed here. You're missing the point of the thread, though, it's about theoretical reasons for preferring theism over other worldviews. So, we have to try and give a cold and accurate assessment of the inner motivation that enables people to keep moving forward

[The Architect Of Fate]

This sounds like utter bullshit....

I have nearly died 4 times and I was quite aware of my morality when it was happening.