Russia and Ukraine

[Thumpalumpacus]

I can see no way to interpret "I am against Person X, but I'll continue to do everything in my power to do everything they want" to be an honest attempt to go against that person.

This is a clear misstatement of Cheney's attitude. Had she wanted to support Trump's every desire, you must explain her stance against his Big Lie, including the wielding of her remaining political power to elicit under oath the facts surrounding the insurrection.

If your opinion is based on this misapprehension you've put in scare quotes above, you should probably reconsider it, because it doesn't comport with the facts.

Cheney wanted to have her cake and eat it too.  She is honestly worse than the lickspittles that are visibly bought.

Cheney woke up late, but at least she woke up. Demonizing her as a Trumpian robot is a silly caricature that doesn't take into account the facts on public display since Jan 2021.

ETA: if you wish to continue this derail, I'd suggest taking it over to the "Absurd GOP" thread, where we will be much more topical. As it stands, I won't be replying to you here in this thread any further.

[Fake Messiah]

Record Number of Russians Would Reverse Decision to Invade Ukraine – Poll

The share of Russians who view the invasion of Ukraine as a mistake has reached a new high, according to survey results from the Russian Field polling agency published Thursday.

For the first time since the start of the war, 37% of respondents say they would reverse Moscow's decision to launch its so-called “special military operation” in Ukraine if they could go back in time.

When Russian Field first asked that same question in March 2022, the number of respondents favoring a reverse decision stood at 28%.

However, the share of those who would not end the war if they were able to go back in time still makes up the majority.

In the latest survey results, 53% of respondents indicated that they did not believe the decision to invade Ukraine was a mistake, down from 57% in March 2022.

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2024/02/0...oll-a83961

[Thumpalumpacus]

Record Number of Russians Would Reverse Decision to Invade Ukraine – Poll

The share of Russians who view the invasion of Ukraine as a mistake has reached a new high, according to survey results from the Russian Field polling agency published Thursday.

For the first time since the start of the war, 37% of respondents say they would reverse Moscow's decision to launch its so-called “special military operation” in Ukraine if they could go back in time.

When Russian Field first asked that same question in March 2022, the number of respondents favoring a reverse decision stood at 28%.

However, the share of those who would not end the war if they were able to go back in time still makes up the majority.

In the latest survey results, 53% of respondents indicated that they did not believe the decision to invade Ukraine was a mistake, down from 57% in March 2022.

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2024/02/0...oll-a83961

... and I have to wonder how much of the polling support is driven by the dangers of dissent in Putin's Russia, and the fear of giving an honest answer.

[The Grand Nudger]

The portion who say that they would still do this if they had a time machine have an even lower opinion of their government and military than those who would.

This, to them, was as good as expected - or close enough.

[Jackalope]

The portion who say that they would still do this if they had a time machine have an even lower opinion of their government and military than those who would.  

This, to them, was as good as expected - or close enough.

You may be right, however, I expect the average Russian is no better informed than the average Fox News huffing American.

[Fireball]

The portion who say that they would still do this if they had a time machine have an even lower opinion of their government and military than those who would.  

This, to them, was as good as expected - or close enough.

You may be right, however, I expect the average Russian is no better informed than the average Fox News huffing American.

After the insurrection, my magat neighbor took down his chump flag. But now he's flying it, again. He asked me about  chips in the Covid injections years ago, and I explained about how that just wouldn't work, based on my 27 years in RF tech. I'm betting that the Faux News fumes overcame the science. 

[Leonardo17]

Nonsense.  Russia produced a grand total of 210 tanks in all of 2023, a sevenfold increase from the year prior.....according to russia....and no one believes that number.  Certainly not the russian soldiers.  Their ability to replace tanks is not an indication of a huge war industry, but of a huge stockpile of soviet era gear in armored boneyards.  If those 5/6/7 series tanks were brand new, fully functional, and not stripped for parts, they would still be obsolete.  Their armor can be defeated by 20+mm depleted uranium rounds and their main cannons are outranged by contemporary shoulder fired AT systems.  Ukraine has destroyed ten times as many tanks as russia can produced in the course of a year...and this is limited only to independent visually confirmed losses.  In sum, russia has lost decades of it's own production, and decades of the production of a country that no longer exists which it has no hope of matching, all so that it can launch mechanized meat assaults with a horrific cost to crew - which are even harder for russia to come by and take even longer to produce than a decent tank.  Ironically, ukraine was the heart of soviet war production, and to this day makes the most modern and combat capable version of the ubiquitous 7 series soviet tank.  For Some Odd Reason™ the russian forces haven't even tried to take out their refineries and production facilities.  Choosing to level apartment blocks instead.

Fun fact.  The Bradley is credited with more tank kills than any contemporary mbt, and not by a little.  In the battle of 73 Easting two Bradley IFVs from ghost troop, separated from their Abrams, ambushed 9 T72 tanks.  They destroyed 5 of them, crippled the others...and then just left without a scratch.  If we're looking at boneyards as "production" the us has 3700 in storage, all of them better maintained than any active armor in the russian military, and it's cheaper to send them to ukraine than to dismantle them, as already ordered by the dod.  This is why putins regime feels that the most crucial factor in their invasion of ukraine is buying off republicans in the united states, and even there, the dipshit is overpaying.  They're so far up the donalds asshole they'd fuck ukraine for free.

I forgot to add a link here. But Business Insider says 100 / month.
 
https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-r...les-2024-1
 
We have to remember that gun-sales is the other half of their economy (the first being oil and Gas). While European countries (like France) were mostly suppliers to the Russian Armed forces before the Syrian and Ukrainian countries, many third world countries (African countries, India, Pakistan) were and are still very interested in Russian airplanes, Tanks, Mechanized vehicles, missile systems etc.
 
Other parenthesis:

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The populist government of Turkey got us kicked out of the F-35 program in order to be able to get Russian made S-400’s that are operational and just sitting in a military hangar right now. Greece (our main strategic rival in the region) recently gave its S-400’s to Ukraine and is getting (if I am correct) some 40 F-35’s while these guys are celebrating on Coca-Cola and mineral water for being able to get F-16’s in return for letting Finland join Nato

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So Russia is still a gigantic monster in military terms. If MAGA politicians keep blocking aid to Ukraine I don’t think Russia will win. Europeans are already ready to step in if Trump is reelected. But I think they will still start to do more damage on Ukrainians.
 
Also, Ukrainian pilots love these F-16’s. I recently saw one in a recent public event. It’s still such a versatile plane that can put Ukrainians back on the offensive against the badly organized Russian army.

  https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-f-16s-exce...22722.html
 

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On MAGA: 

Societies always have a DNA. America is a 300 years old Democracy. In Brazil Jair Bolsonaro is now banned from leaving Brazil:

https://www.france24.com/en/americas/202...mpted-coup
 
There has been and will be right and left wing populists all around the world. But I don’t think they can be successful if we don’t underestimate them. (Never estimate a movement that takes its power from the lower instincts, ignorance and self-centered attitude of a group of people that is seen as “the main element” or “majority” of a society).
 
And this figure is the same in Russia too. I think I could have managed to fit in somehow if I had to live in the Soviet Union. But the level of propaganda, misinformation, and manipulation of heard like behavior is simply madness right now. All normal Russians have either left the country or are looking for ways to leave the country (and that’s normal).
 
So Hello to Pablo once again. This is the madness I am talking about:



+ a small comment on the center left wing of the US political spectrum:




“Taylor Swift is Joining Joe Biden’s Political campaign”
 
Comic Joe Biden is saying:
 
“I want to say thank you to Michael Jackson for his support to our election campaign”
 

[Thumpalumpacus]

I forgot to add a link here. But Business Insider says 100 / month.

Those are refurbished, obsolete models.

And you know what's harder to replace than tanks? Trained crews that got blown to Hell and gone in an obsolete death-trap.

So Russia is still a gigantic monster in military terms.

Russia's conventional forces have been thoroughly discredited. The only reason they matter is their nukes.

[The Grand Nudger]

...and nobody wants to test those, but at the same time, nobody thinks they all work anymore, either. I know, I know, people say it only takes one. One supposes that also applies if it goes off on the pad.

Say the first one manages to put a crater in the russian countryside, do they try to launch nine more just to play the odds? Say one does get loose..what's it gonna do if it -also- makes it to target, hit ukraine? Seen any pictures of their towns lately, do they seem unwilling to die fighting the russian eradication plan? Fuck their nukes, what a shitty way to determine geopolitical realities.

[Thumpalumpacus]

...and nobody wants to test those, but at the same time, nobody thinks they all work anymore, either.  I know, I know, people say it only takes one.  One supposes that also applies if it goes off on the pad.

Say the first one manages to put a crater in the russian countryside, do they try to launch nine more just to play the odds?  Say one does get loose..what's it gonna do if it -also- makes it to target, hit ukraine?  Seen any pictures of their towns lately, do they seem unwilling to die fighting the russian eradication plan?  Fuck their nukes, what a shitty way to determine geopolitical realities.

As shitty as it is, it's the only way to ensure no one attacks you. The Ukrainian sure regret giving up the ones they inherited in the 90s.