The justice and mercy of God

[Erinome]

You can keep your two cents. It's filthy. God-as-stalker-come-torturer? If the things you post have anything to do with christ exposing himself through you, I wish he'd put his pants back on and get his dick out of my face. That's all I can see when people start arguing for the god you seem to believe in, a cosmic dick.

Don't give that god so much credit, Rhythm.

[genkaus]

According to modern-day Pauline Christianity, a person is saved only if s/he accepts Jesus Christ as personal saviour. I asked the following questions in a Christian chat-room:

1) If an evil person sincerely asks for forgiveness and accepts Christ on their dying day, can they go to heaven? The answer was Yes.

2) In theory, if Hitler sincerely asked for forgiveness and accepted Christ on his dying day, he could have gone to heaven? The answer was Yes.

3) What about Hitler's victims, who were mostly Jews?
The majority's answer was: If they didn't accept Christ, they go to hell.

So, the murderer can go to heaven by accepting Jesus Christ, yet his victims go to hell for having a different opinion.


Is there any way to get Christians to see the total lack of reason and compassion in this line of thinking?

Actually, it seems fitting that the Christian god would go for mercy over justice, given how hell-bent he is on destroying man's rational capacity.

Justice and mercy are antithetical concepts. Justice means giving what is deserved- punishment for wrong, rewards for rights and forgiveness for penanced sins. Mercy means giving unearned forgiveness.

Mercy and cruelty are not opposite concepts - they spring from the same root - giving what is undeserved and unearned. They just have different things to give - forgiveness or punishment.

These actions go against all rationality and are therefore fitting for the Christian god and other Christians. It is no surprise that god is seen as merciful by some and cruel by others. He can be both at the same time if he is taking or giving the unearned to the undeserving.

[Godscreated]

[/quote='GC']Prove that Hitler and his soldiers were christians , you made the statement now give us your facts.[/quote]

Very well.

http://www.questia.com/PM.qst?a=o&d=98197509

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/..._honor.php

http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/pr...n-1483871/

Thanks for the reads, however just because Hitler was politically attached to the Catholic Church does not make him a christian. The hierarchy of the Catholic Church is more political than religious, so I question their devotion to Christ and his teachings. The Catholic Church does not resemble the christian church of the NT. Anyone can claim to be christian just as I could claim to be a biologist. Hold me up to the standards a biologist needs to meet and you would see that I was lying. Hold Hitler up to the standards of Christ's teachings and he was no more a christian than I'm a biologist. Hitler saw the Jews as an enemy, he however neglected to adhere to a teaching of Christ, "love thy enemy as thy self," now history shows us without a doubt that Hitler did not obey that commandment. Christ taught that we are suppose to take our enemy in feed and cloth him if he has those needs, once again history proves to us that Hitler did none of these things. Instead he put the Jews in concentration camps stripped them of there clothes and starved them before killing them, this evil man never came close to being a christian. Religious politics to gain power is all he was about. I could go on with more that proves Hitler was not a christian but you know nothing of the NT so I see no need to waste time in doing so. Anyone who believes Hitler was anything more than an animal is just plain stupid. An human who cares for others that would claim Hitler was a christian, atheist, or anything else that resembles a human being needs their head examined.

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[/quote='GC']You need to study the Bible those who are true believers are changed and no longer considered to be whatever their former self was. So no heaven will not be full of criminals.[/quote]

I have studied the bible. The old testament, not the new.
God also does not tamper with free will, correct?

You ask this question as if you are not certain of the answer and actually that's what I see. It's apparent you know nothing about freewill and the way God deals with it, learn what freewill is according to God and then we can discuss the matter.

Assuming that he does not, then a criminal will be just as much of a criminal in heaven as on Earth.

No sinner is allowed into heaven, study the NT before you make such irresponsible statements, christians are a changed people, the old has been put away and a new person emerges, kind of like a caterpillar goes into it's chrysalis stage and emerges as a new creature, a butterfly.

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To keep a lie going, one must put more lies on top of it. Adherence to this religion requires you to continue to make excuses and pile lies on top of lies, to keep elaborating to the point of ridiculousness. At some point, Godschild, you've got to acknowledge that things just don't add up. You have no clue what this god's purpose is either, so you say "it's a mystery of God." What sort of god would create a game of hide-and-seek, and give you only one lifetime to get it right, or else you burn forever?

No I do not need to acknowledge that, not know or ever your being ridiculous. I'm sorry that you can not see the truth about God, that is a problem you made for yourself and can only be straightened out by you. I know the over all purpose of God, that is one of the easiest things to know about him, it's in scripture put in plain sight that is if you were to look, I'm sure you want because your not interested in truth, all you care is to feed you ego, how sad is that. I never said I did not know the purpose of God, I said that no one is privy the entire purpose of God or maybe I should say all the workings of God's purpose. God has made things very clear you just don't want to see, and one does not need a life time to get it right , all one needs is a humble moment with God.

And, again. . . I've read all the scripture. It was a bunch of bullshit about male dominance, a male's right to own women, advocation of intolerance and murder, and a variety of other similarly disusting things. I wonder, have you ever read the old testament, or even the new testament?

Of course, whether you have or not, you're going to reply yes.

Yes I read and study the Bible, all of it, with an open mind and heart and yes I have questions about certain events in the OT and ask God about them. You are now trying to be deceptive, above^ you stated that you haven't read the NT let lone study it. I do not appreciate being called a liar especially by one who is attempting to be deceptive with me.
[/quote]

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No I do not need to acknowledge that, not know or ever your being ridiculous. I'm sorry that you can not see the truth about God, that is a problem you made for yourself and can only be straightened out by you. I know the over all purpose of God, that is one of the easiest things to know about him, it's in scripture put in plain sight that is if you were to look, I'm sure you want because your not interested in truth, all you care is to feed you ego, how sad is that. I never said I did not know the purpose of God, I said that no one is privy the entire purpose of God or maybe I should say all the workings of God's purpose. God has made things very clear you just don't want to see, and one does not need a life time to get it right , all one needs is a humble moment with God.

Everyone knows the purpose of god.
Its to establish control over man's life with lure of reward or fear of punishment in the next one.
Its to answer the questions you don't know the answer to without letting anyone on to that fact.
Its to aid people in faking reality so that they may feel that they can escape the consequences of their actions.

That is the purpose of god. For this purpose, god was invented.

WRONG, you are indeed a very shallow minded person.

[Zen Badger]

"Not a real christian"

EVERYONE TAKE A DRINK!!!!!!

[KichigaiNeko]

Five Cougars!! Thanks! ...+1

[Freedom]

Mercy and cruelty are not opposite concepts - they spring from the same root - giving what is undeserved and unearned. They just have different things to give - forgiveness or punishment.

These actions go against all rationality and are therefore fitting for the Christian god and other Christians. It is no surprise that god is seen as merciful by some and cruel by others. He can be both at the same time if he is taking or giving the unearned to the undeserving.

So, when Christians say their god is merciful and just, among other positive attributes (omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent), they are projecting their own preferences onto a being that doesn't exist, basically creating a god in the image of the human archetype. Otherwise, they are creating a god in the image of the complete opposite, a human aberration.

[Norfolk And Chance]

According to modern-day Pauline Christianity, a person is saved only if s/he accepts Jesus Christ as personal saviour. I asked the following questions in a Christian chat-room:

1) If an evil person sincerely asks for forgiveness and accepts Christ on their dying day, can they go to heaven? The answer was Yes.

2) In theory, if Hitler sincerely asked for forgiveness and accepted Christ on his dying day, he could have gone to heaven? The answer was Yes.

3) What about Hitler's victims, who were mostly Jews?
The majority's answer was: If they didn't accept Christ, they go to hell.

So, the murderer can go to heaven by accepting Jesus Christ, yet his victims go to hell for having a different opinion.


Is there any way to get Christians to see the total lack of reason and compassion in this line of thinking?

No.

They are indeed, stupid bastards.

I've already had the same conversation online with a minister. He won't engage me any more.

[Epimethean]

He probably wouldn't marry you, either, NAC.

[The Grand Nudger]

Well he might, but he wouldn't perform the service...zing!

[Zen Badger]

My point being that it doesn't matter what you've done in your life. You could be the biggest murdering scum on the planet but all god cares about is that you love him. It could be Hitler, it could be anyone. Hitler is just a example of how fucked up your theology is.
Heaven by your definition could be full of rapists and serial killers. All who asked for "forgiveness" at the last moment.

You need to study the Bible those who are true believers are changed and no longer considered to be whatever their former self was. So no heaven will not be full of criminals.

Ahh yes, accept jeebus and all of a sudden you're magically changed into a good person.(Still responsible for unspeakable acts against humanity but that's OK.... apparently )

And where in the bible does it specifically say that?