Russia and Ukraine

[Leonardo17]

There really is no debate about Hitler's beliefs. Rather than read wikipedia, read John Toland's two-volume biography, and/or Shirer's history of the Third Reich. It's true that at the end of his life he was looking to astrology for answers to how Germany might stave off defeat, but that was such a minor portion of his life that it pales in comparison to his monotheistic beliefs.

The idea that Nazis were based on magical thinking is a misapprehension, probably inserted into modern misinformation by the Indiana Jones movie. Sure, some were pagan mystics. They were by far in the minority.

I'd like to see reputable sources for your claims herein, especially the attempted use of magic to resurrect pilots. I've been studying this stuff for forty years and have seen no mention of that, even in Williamson Murray's works. Note that by "reputable" I mean writers and researchers with established track records in the history of the Third Reich.

Leo would also benefit from a more careful reading of the Wikipedia article to which he linked. It really doesn’t support his views on this.

Boru

   I might be under the influence of the many sensational Discovery Chanel documentaries and other new-age books I saw or read in my earlier years. I have even seen a documentary one or two years ago on the Houska Castle in the Czech Republic. Himmler is even said to have an extensive collection of books on Occultism. Hitler is also said to have had several works on Occultism in his library. The founder of the Turkish Republic (who lived in roughly the same era) had also many books on many different subjects (because people in that era spend a great deal of time reading in comparison to later TV and Internet generations). He even had pseudo-Scientific books on the forgotten Lemuria and Atlantis civilizations etc. but none one occultism, paganism and/or similar parapsychological practices. Normal minded people are not interested in these issues that much.





(Go to 6:10) 
But let me not argue too much since you have read some more trustworthy resources on the subject. I remember that Hitler had a chapter on “The superiority of the Protestant Faith”. So I might be doing what many people did before me, creating some fascinating beliefs on issues that I do not fully understand.
 

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   The situation on the Ukrainian front is not that good. 

Daily Beast Article

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  The Turkish military losses (deaths) related to the 40-45 years old Kurdish insurrection movement is below 10,000. And I know what this means. In the Hay-Day of the insurrection (the 1990’s) this meant the news of a new body being returned to his family almost every single day. There was a climate of fear. Nobody wanted to do their mandatory military service because it was a really risky situation if you were sent to the Eastern part of the country in that era. So I was lucky being a conscript in the early 2000’s rather than in the early 90’s.

   But I understand the logistical issues that is mentioned in the article. War is a nasty thing. Military command structures around the world are not that “intelligent”. So yes, somebody can make a mistake and a whole battalion or half of it can easily disappear in the mountain (or in the front) and that’s basically normal.

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   So 70,000 Ukrainian deaths is a huge number in our time. This is not the 1940’s anymore. People are simply afraid to die.

   + On the Russian side, the country is likely to face a huge economic recession after this war. I am understanding that Putin has already destroyed whatever is left of the pre-2012 Russian economy.

   Many specialists seem to agree that the permission to use long range missiles on Russian targets could be the next intelligent step to take. But it seems like the US election is keeping them from doing that right now. In fact nobody (not even Putin) knows the meaning of a second Trump presidency in the US. So that might be the reason why the Biden administration is waiting for now. 

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Bemore: You still can’t go to war with Russia. A country Like Japan can probably neutralize North Korea within hours so that they can’t do any damage with their nukes. Russia has the remains of the Red-Army. So even with a very sophisticated army, it’s simply too risky to attack them directly.
 
+ Nuclear oblivion is a serious threat. We all sort of need this planet in order to live. 

Arewethereyet:

 

In the 1914-1918 war the number of Deaths in the French Army is somewhere between 1 and 1.3 million. The size of their army was about 3 million.

 
So I don’t know. I think the world has evolved and I really hope we won’t go back to such huge military confrontation with one another again.

[arewethereyet]

So before the 1950s people weren't afraid to die? Do you just like pulling things out of your ass and stating them as fact?

You are tiresome.

[The Grand Nudger]

Re 1914/18 kia/wia to total army size.....russia is approaching a full turn on it's forces. 650k/900k (and that 900k was just on paper.....). Each successive turn of forces...locally or globally, means the next set is of lesser quality. Who is left to train them? The remains of the red army are buried in ukranian fields - men and equipment included. It is ukraines poverty, and not russias might, that has prolonged this conflict. It was ukraines poverty that started this fight. Russia was looking for someone they could bully and figured a nation picked clean by grift and corruption was the appropriate theater for their military...and even that turned out to be an aspirational goal on a practical level.

As it turns out, they should have goaded us to attack ukraine, rather than doing it themselves. There was probably some fever dream scenario in one of putins intel yesmens heads that played out exactly like that. Where the donalds smallness could be counted on to get us forces to clear out the "terrorists" for russian occupation. Nobody stopped them when they anexed crimea, and they assumed no one would come to ukraines aid. This is one of the key intel failures on the russian side that's lead to their disastrous performance in the war. They misread the collective wests disbelief that russia would do something so clearly stupid and disastrous for russia as the collective wests apathy towards ukraine. They misread ukrainians dissatisfaction for their own government as a desire for russian rule. They misread ukraines inability to fight the initial occupation a decade ago as an unwillingness to fight.

I'm still on the fence about whether they misread their own forces. I'll die before anyone sees those records, if ever. I think there's a version of this where russia realizing how shitty their situation actually was became the catalyst for a desperate invasion.

[arewethereyet]

When I am on break at work and go outside for some fresh air, or in other quiet moments, I do sometimes wonder what things would be like if we actually went to war with Russia (like officially, not this proxy war stuff with Ukraine)

You can go on Reddit and see the extreme horror of the meat grinder of this conflict in full HD, mostly with drones dropping grenades or other explosives on people or Go-Pro helmet cams, over the last ten years I've seen a lot of different footage for conflicts, but nothing compares to the volume of this.

I have never been on the app "Telegram" but I have heard there is a lot of horrific footage there. Whereas it will be pro Ukrainian /westernised footage on Reddit, apparently there is a lot of Russian footage too. Which makes me wonder if the recent(ish) arrest of Telegrams founder and owner is something to do with controlling the flow of information, alongside everything else they are accused of.

I just wonder where all of this will lead, and wether I will be hearing air raid sirens in the UK at some future point.

I am sorry to see you so distressed over the possibility of war spilling over to other countries.

But, I am glad to see you again.  (aka anjele from TTA)

[The Grand Nudger]

Russia is more interested in censoring telegram than the west...mostly because the stuff the russians are posting on telegram directly contradicts the official line that putin has been feeding the serfs in russia.

Telegram stuff is "pro-russian" only in that it's russians constantly asking how it is that they're getting fucked so hard by ukraine, the ukrops, the holhols, whatever. Calling for airstrikes on social media before their unit is captured or annihilated - because they have no working comms or no one is answering when they do. Making video pleas that serve as last words and memorials to the great man in moscow to save them, as though it were just their line commander sending them to their deaths. Where they go to spin yarns about all african american units of supersoldiers with fantasy weapons being the reason all their friends are dead - rather than the people whose towns they invaded, whose daughters they've raped, whose children they've slaughtered. Russia is stuck in a moment of collective disbelief that putin could even be so incompetent, that the subhumans to the south might resist.

Telegram is where I go every morning for my war porn. If you want to know why the west might want the founder of telegram..it's because telegram has become the defacto means of communication for russian forces. It's not just sadsacks sent to fertilize the fields of ukraine....they send out orders on telegram too...because all of their official shit is trash, a good portion of it made by ukranians, who use that as the softener. Sending out a mass of fake and real reports, in russian, in advance of the assualt. Meanwhile, the russians don't speak ukranian. Yikes. We thought we had it bad back in the early oughts, and every grunt everywhere for all of time has had some version of a joke about being a mushroom....but what's lower than a mushroom? What's lower than a snakes belly..because whatever that is, that's where the russian soldiers on telegram are living right now.

In the beginning, one of the helpful idiot lines was "we just don't know enough about this conflict, there are too many propagandists, where are the "real" reporters?" In mere reality, the russo ukranian war is easily the most well documented conflict in human history, all of it public. That's part of the problem for both sides. Between sats, drones, and smartphones....there's no credible way to move troops surreptitiously. Effective surprise is achieved by superior logistics. The key to victory for either side lies less in the hands of brilliant generals or brave soldiers - and more in the hands of amazon distribution middle management.

As a kicker, ukraine sets up bot and troll accounts to run donation drives to help the boys. The russian ones...and russians pour their money into them, which ukraine uses to buy over the counter gear they then retrofit to drop submunitions from disassembled cluster bombs the us sent. That part sounds funny, but..officially, russia is the single largest contributor to ukrainian weapon stocks in general.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

@Leonardo17

Hitler is also said to have had several works on Occultism in his library.

I also have books on occultism in my library, it doesn’t make me an occultist. I also own books on geology, Roman legions, elephants, and trees (among other topics). This doesn’t mean I’m a geologist, a centurion, a zookeeper, or an arborist.

Boru

[A. Secular Human]

Leo would also benefit from a more careful reading of the Wikipedia article to which he linked. It really doesn’t support his views on this.

Boru

I confess I didn't read that one. I've seen so many clear historical errors in wiki articles that they hold very little credibility to me.

I only ever look at Wikipedia for the source references, then go all primary, if possible.

[arewethereyet]

Somewhere I have a book on barn building. It even has little popups to show where the studs and the trusses line up. It was my grandfather's. I don't think I will be building any barns in the future.

What books a person has really doesn't define them.

[The Valkyrie]

Somewhere I have a book on barn building. It even has little popups to show where the studs and the trusses line up. It was my grandfather's. I don't think I will be building any barns in the future.

What books a person has really doesn't define them.

You say that now.

In a few years you'll be living in an Armish Paradise.

[arewethereyet]

Somewhere I have a book on barn building.  It even has little popups to show where the studs and the trusses line up.  It was my grandfather's.  I don't think I will be building any barns in the future.  

What books a person has really doesn't define them.

You say that now.

In a few years you'll be living in an Armish Paradise.

At my age, in a few years, paints quite a different picture.