Christians: A Question

[fr0d0]

And yet you said yourself, that many of us on these forums are going to burn in hell.

What!?!?

Wake up Cin I think you're dreaming again.

*sigh* So, it was a sacrifice. The first one implies that it was a willing sacrifice. The second option says it was not a sacrifice at all because he was willing. Hope that clears things up.

In what reality do you work this out?! Of course it was a willing sacrifice. Jesus knew that it was going to happen and willingly put himself in the line of fire to fully accept his destiny ....is the biblical story.

Gods plan was to make the perfect sacrifice so that people could shed their limiting guilt and be close to God. Like God, & fully realised human beings.

Never ever is God unwilling in this. It's not debateable. It's something literally and clearly stated. For any person claiming to follow the biblical Christ this is accepted.

The first option does not say it was not willing. Good grief. I should never have tried for a straight answer from Christians. No offense, but you guys are a bunch of smoke talkers.

Yeah and that is never Christian.

Option one is most correct... apart from that glaring flaw. Option two says it wasn't a sacrifice. Your statements are contradictory, and not the belief that you are trying to understand. The confusion is all yours.

The sacrifice is the crux (sic) of the issue. The willingness is inseperable. HTH

[kılıç_mehmet]

Chip, you are exempt from this poll, as I already know your opinion on it.

I realize this is something of an appeal to popularity. However, I am trying to establish what the common Christian feeling on Jesus' sacrifice was, so bear with me.

Well, I think that everything leads to the same thing.

[Norfolk And Chance]

I was not saying that it was and was not a sacrifice, what I meant Jesus willingly gave himself as a sacrifice for the salvation of man. This was not something Christ had to do it was something he accepted (being a sacrifice) to save the people he created. Hope this clears things up.

Why could people only be saved by sacrifice? Run that by me one more time...

[Shell B]

In what reality do you work this out?! Of course it was a willing sacrifice.

Oh my fucking goodness, Frodo. I realize that the belief is that it was a willing sacrifice. I never said that it wasn't.

Jesus knew that it was going to happen and willingly put himself in the line of fire to fully accept his destiny ....is the biblical story.

I fucking know!

Gods plan was to make the perfect sacrifice so that people could shed their limiting guilt and be close to God. Like God, & fully realised human beings.

I fucking know that too.

Never ever is God unwilling in this. It's not debateable. It's something literally and clearly stated. For any person claiming to follow the biblical Christ this is accepted.

Except by Chipan, hence the reason for this thread. He is saying it was not a sacrifice. I'm not saying this stuff, Frodo. I am asking it to clear up a bullshit claim that all of you believe it was not a sacrifice.

Option one is most correct... apart from that glaring flaw. Option two says it wasn't a sacrifice. Your statements are contradictory, and not the belief that you are trying to understand. The confusion is all yours.

Argh. The first one is not flawed. I simply did not mention the willingness as it was not pertinent to the conclusion. In the second option, the willingness led Chipan to say it was not a sacrifice. That is why the option is there. I am not fucking confused about it, Frodo. I am trying to clear up the confusion among you people so I don't feel compelled to write you all off as contradictory nitwits. If you would like me to fail in that endeavor, please continue being even more elusive and confusing.

[fr0d0]

I think the confusion arises from the perspective one places on Jesus. Of course the man, in his ability to suffer pain and the instinct to live, is an unwilling victim. This is also God tho', so the man is sacrificed for a higher purpose which he can also know about. Do you need that clarifying further?

[Shell B]

No, sweetheart. You're missing the point altogether. All I need to know is whether or not it is a sacrifice in your mind. I understand the folklore. I was simply told by Chippy that Jesus was not a human sacrifice. Of course, I disagreed, as the entirety of your religion is based on that simple belief. He said that no Christian would say Jesus was a human sacrifice because he was a perfect man. Perfect or not, he was a man and he was sacrificed, according to the Bible.

[fr0d0]

Jesus wasn't a human sacrifice. He was a God sacrifice.

In your poll you put "Jesus' sacrifice to God". Jesus is God... that doesn't make sense. Maybe you missed that correction?

[Norfolk And Chance]

I think the confusion arises from the perspective one places on Jesus. Of course the man, in his ability to suffer pain and the instinct to live, is an unwilling victim. This is also God tho', so the man is sacrificed for a higher purpose which he can also know about. Do you need that clarifying further?

But WHY was a SACRIFICE needed?

Why?

Couldn't we all have done 100 press ups to please god boy, or wrote "I will not sin" 1,000 times?

[fr0d0]

100 press ups... or whatever. That's still a sacrifice. You're not offering an alternative.

The problem sacrifice addresses is human imperfection, and our parrallel need to think we're good enough. We don't seem to function with our conscience compromised.

So you kill an animal the size of your guilt so that you feel you paid off that guilt. Self administered justice.

[Shell B]

*sigh* Yes, he was a god sacrifice, as were all the animals that came before him. Listen, you're getting too technical with this. Either Jesus was a sacrifice or he was not. It is really that simple.