Literally the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

[Doubting Thomas]

Schindler's List was good, too.

[Rev. Rye]

Schindler's List was good, too.

I'm honestly conflicted about that particular film, on the one hand, it's the closest thing Spielberg has come to making true art on celluloid, but on the other hand, it feels like he's trying to soften the blow of the genocide of too much; the way Steven Spielberg tells it, after Hitler killed himself and the allies took over, everything was hunky-dory, except, of course for the millions who died; it's just too sugar-coated for my taste. Furthermore, it was more or less directly responsible for the creation of many more inferior films that were more concerned with getting an easy Oscar than exploring the actual event (things like what its existence says about humanity, why it happened, why it doesn't happen more often, is it better to be killed or to survive.)

[AthiestAtheist]

Here in the US I was sorta taught that the UK and France sorta let it happen by ignoring the signs of Germany trying to gain power and stuff. Maybe that is what she meant.

[Doubting Thomas]

I don't think that it was sugar coated much at all. You had a businessman who was a member of the Nazi party who built a factory with Jewish slave labor, and later became disgusted at the treatment of the Jews and decided to save as many as he could. The Nazis are not portrayed as anything other but inhumane monsters who enjoy conducting summary executions whenever possible. The scenes where the Nazis were clearing out the Warsaw ghetto and later on digging up the bodies & burning them certainly didn't sugar coat the events of the Holocaust.

[Rev. Rye]

I don't think that it was sugar coated much at all. You had a businessman who was a member of the Nazi party who built a factory with Jewish slave labor, and later became disgusted at the treatment of the Jews and decided to save as many as he could. The Nazis are not portrayed as anything other but inhumane monsters who enjoy conducting summary executions whenever possible. The scenes where the Nazis were clearing out the Warsaw ghetto and later on digging up the bodies & burning them certainly didn't sugar coat the events of the Holocaust.

Quite honestly, I think that's part of the problem. On the one hand, that's pretty much true that they're bloodthirsty monsters. On the other hand, I think that the fact that they're percieved as just that just serves to distance the audience from the events. Spielberg is afraid to confront his audience with the truth that, while Oskar Schindler is clearly an admirable person, if we're ever confronted with a similar scenario, we're more likely to either step back and ignore it, or actively join in (either out of fear for our own safety or the allure of being a part of something bigger than ourselves). I'm willing to acknowledge that the Nazis (and Amon Goeth in particular) are utterly reprehensible for their attempt to kill the Jews of Europe. But the fact is that Amon Goeth was an aberration; for just one example, when Rudolf Hoess (Commandant of Auschwitz) wasn't on duty in Auschwitz, he was a devoted family man, and no-one in his family found any problem with the fact that his job was to help orchestrate the slaughter of millions of innocent people. This does not in my mind, excuse anything they did. In fact, this little factoid makes everything more terrifying, because it gives the lie to the assumption that anyone who takes part in genocide must simply be the kind of person who gets their kicks by hurting people. Anyone can become a part of it, even if they're normally not sadists. Look at the stock response the Nazis gave at Nuremberg: "An order's an order." It's what Hannah Arendt called "The Banality of Evil," and it's something that, as crucial as it is to understanding why the Holocaust occurred, is something that is flat-out ignored in almost every Holocaust movie.There's a flipside to the tragedy of the Holocaust that so many Hollywood films ignore; The Holocaust is not just the time when millions of people got slaughtered by the Nazis. It's the time when millions of people got slaughtered by the Nazis and over 60 million Germans just didn't care (when they didn't actively encourage it.)

[Violet]

Those children totally had it coming

Yeah! Fuck the kids! Oh... That didn't come out right...

No no: it came out perfectly.

[Cosmic Ape]

"Hitler was an Atheist" - Bill O'Reilly

[Anomalocaris]

Well...

Well, do try to take what I said as well-meaning. I mean it. I see posts from you in some thread and think, "He sure has potential." I see other posts and think, "Fuck, he went backward again." I realize that is just based on how I feel people should think and behave, but I'm positive I am not the only person who thinks that way and I know it is a more harmonious way of thinking. There is a lot to be said for background, though. I am sure you are considered forward-thinking among your peers.

---

Who are his peers? 13th century turkic steppe tribesmen yearning to be confused for a Mongol? What is his potential? To be 1% less braggardocious, ignorant, provincial, manically chauvinistic, and utterly insensible than he had been so far?

[KichigaiNeko]

Well...

Well, do try to take what I said as well-meaning. I mean it. I see posts from you in some thread and think, "He sure has potential." I see other posts and think, "Fuck, he went backward again." I realize that is just based on how I feel people should think and behave, but I'm positive I am not the only person who thinks that way and I know it is a more harmonious way of thinking. There is a lot to be said for background, though. I am sure you are considered forward-thinking among your peers.

---

Who are his peers? 13th century turkic steppe tribesmen yearning to be confused for a Mongol? What is his potential? To be 1% less braggardocious, ignorant, provincial, manically chauvinistic, and utterly insensible than he had been so far?

Yeah Chuck...valid point

[leo-rcc]

The most chilling account I've ever seen of this particularly shameful period in history has to be the BBC/HBO co-production Conspiracy, which I watched for the umpteenth time last night.

+1
I have it on DVD, and as AVI on my laptop. I ordered the DVD specially out of the UK after I saw it at a friends house. The entire cast was also 100% spot on.