Posts: 25314
Threads: 239
Joined: August 26, 2010
Reputation:
156
RE: Differentiating a religious experience/including hallucinations from a psyc disorder
March 20, 2012 at 1:00 pm
(This post was last modified: March 20, 2012 at 1:10 pm by Cyberman.)
See, this is exactly what I was referring to in your other thread, when I spoke about rationalising away any attempts at explanation and discarding alternative possibilites, some of which may be vaild. You have had this experience and you were clearly impressed by it. Naturally you're going to be defensive of it.
If you'll indulge me, I'd like to present a video to illustrate the problem. Please don't be put off by the cheesy 80's 'schools tv' type music at the start, I promise it's not that sort of video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T69TOuqaqXI
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
Posts: 105
Threads: 8
Joined: August 16, 2011
Reputation:
3
RE: Differentiating a religious experience/including hallucinations from a psyc disorder
March 20, 2012 at 1:21 pm
I started my own thread along these lines last year. I am in therapy myself and vocational rehab. I should be in outpatioent substance abuse treatment except for my stubborn enjoyment of bourbon, lol. 
My mother turned to pentecostalism after my brother died of pneumonia; there was an epidemic in northern IL in 1968. He was six months old. Much of my dislike of religion comes from the way less than scrupulous preachers prey on the already emotionally wounded. Then, so it seems, their wounds are not only made worse, but in some cases held over their heads so the amoral f*cks can feel superior. She eventually left that church because she was ashamed of herself for still smoking cigarettes. That holy book was designed to screw you up, IMO.
/soapbox
Posts: 84
Threads: 5
Joined: March 17, 2012
Reputation:
0
RE: Differentiating a religious experience/including hallucinations from a psyc disorder
March 20, 2012 at 1:42 pm
I recognize that Stimbo and this wasn't for you specifically I'll watch that video shortly and let u know what I think. Thank you
"If Christianity is untrue, then no honest man will want to believe it, however helpful it might be; if it is true, every honest man will want to believe it, even if it gives him no help at all."
C. S. Lewis - Essay, Man or Rabbit.
Posts: 25314
Threads: 239
Joined: August 26, 2010
Reputation:
156
RE: Differentiating a religious experience/including hallucinations from a psyc disorder
March 20, 2012 at 1:52 pm
No problem. Glad to help.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
Posts: 84
Threads: 5
Joined: March 17, 2012
Reputation:
0
RE: Differentiating a religious experience/including hallucinations from a psyc disorder
March 20, 2012 at 2:04 pm
Ok Stimbo point taken. I suppose you could use the authority of Jesus Christ to summon your demons to reveal themselves in His name and see if anything manifests but with no faith in a higher power to protect you that's a dangerous game to play. That said, if you do, please explain what you experienced.
"If Christianity is untrue, then no honest man will want to believe it, however helpful it might be; if it is true, every honest man will want to believe it, even if it gives him no help at all."
C. S. Lewis - Essay, Man or Rabbit.
Posts: 25314
Threads: 239
Joined: August 26, 2010
Reputation:
156
RE: Differentiating a religious experience/including hallucinations from a psyc disorder
March 20, 2012 at 2:11 pm
(This post was last modified: March 20, 2012 at 2:12 pm by Cyberman.)
And now you've completely lost me. Are you sure you used the right name? I honestly have no idea what you mean, or why you addressed it to me. Nothing in your reply connects to anything I've said.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
Posts: 84
Threads: 5
Joined: March 17, 2012
Reputation:
0
RE: Differentiating a religious experience/including hallucinations from a psyc disorder
March 20, 2012 at 2:51 pm
Stimbo yes the video explains how two people who see the same thing can see different things or explain it away or call it supernatural whatever. Giving you my witnesses would not only violate their privacy but I doubt you'd really follow up with them or believe more hearsay. So I invite you to summon your demons in the name of Jesus Christ, to reveal themselves and tell me how you explain your experience. But I wouldn't recommend it if you don't have faith in Jesus to protect you from them.
"If Christianity is untrue, then no honest man will want to believe it, however helpful it might be; if it is true, every honest man will want to believe it, even if it gives him no help at all."
C. S. Lewis - Essay, Man or Rabbit.
Posts: 1123
Threads: 18
Joined: February 15, 2012
Reputation:
27
RE: Differentiating a religious experience/including hallucinations from a psyc disorder
March 20, 2012 at 3:04 pm
(This post was last modified: March 20, 2012 at 3:08 pm by NoMoreFaith.)
(March 20, 2012 at 2:04 pm)Hunter9035 Wrote: Ok Stimbo point taken. I suppose you could use the authority of Jesus Christ to summon your demons to reveal themselves in His name and see if anything manifests but with no faith in a higher power to protect you that's a dangerous game to play. That said, if you do, please explain what you experienced.
That was highly unrelated to Stimbos video (which is superb by the way, recommended watching for anybody).
Okay, Stimbo is too valuable to risk, so I retired to the bathroom and used this phrase.
I must confess to feeling a bit nervous, like the childhood game "Candyman" but you wouldn't enjoy a good horror movie if you weren't allowed a bit of irrational fear.
"I invoke the authority of Jesus Christ and demand my demons manifest"
Nothing happened, so I stared intently in the mirror and said again
"On the authority of Jesus Christ, Lord Almighty, I command my demons to show themselves"
Just in case I got the words wrong.
Looks like I'm demon free. I have tested your hypothesis and found no cause. It does occur to me however, if by coincidence, even a small thing happened, like a light dimming at that point, it would have scared the bejeeeeeezuz out of me  We're all subject to irrational fears, being human.
The danger, if you don't mind me saying, is more in the minds ability to play up to your own fears. If you wholeheartedly believe in demons and jesus, its not unreasonable to assume your mind will supply exactly what you expect.
I feel a bit silly now, but I thought it only fair to act test your idea out.
EDIT: I should also point out, it would be natural of you to be skeptical whether I have done, and I swear on my own childrens life I have done so, I can make no more solemn promise. If you are skeptical, you can at least now understand our skepticism.
(March 20, 2012 at 2:51 pm)Hunter9035 Wrote: Stimbo yes the video explains how two people who see the same thing can see different things or explain it away or call it supernatural whatever. Giving you my witnesses would not only violate their privacy but I doubt you'd really follow up with them or believe more hearsay. So I invite you to summon your demons in the name of Jesus Christ, to reveal themselves and tell me how you explain your experience. But I wouldn't recommend it if you don't have faith in Jesus to protect you from them.
See above. Sorry, nothing. I have to say, this preoccupation with demons is extremely worrying. Who fed you this? Because its not even mainstream Christianity to believe we all have demons inside of us like that. You seriously worry me that someone is taking extreme advantage of your personal traumas.
Self-authenticating private evidence is useless, because it is indistinguishable from the illusion of it. ― Kel, Kelosophy Blog
If you’re going to watch tele, you should watch Scooby Doo. That show was so cool because every time there’s a church with a ghoul, or a ghost in a school. They looked beneath the mask and what was inside?
The f**king janitor or the dude who runs the waterslide. Throughout history every mystery. Ever solved has turned out to be. Not Magic. ― Tim Minchin, Storm
Posts: 25314
Threads: 239
Joined: August 26, 2010
Reputation:
156
RE: Differentiating a religious experience/including hallucinations from a psyc disorder
March 20, 2012 at 3:09 pm
(This post was last modified: March 20, 2012 at 3:16 pm by Cyberman.)
Point one: the video explains the importance of critical thinking and openmindedness vs gullibility, not how two people can interpret the same things differently. Point two: I have no interest in your witnesses nor have I asked about them. What you choose to present here is entirely up to you, however your reluctance to provide anything that can actually be examined and considered demonstrates exactly the point I was making about being defensive about treasured beliefs, however erroneous, unjustified or irrational those beliefs may be. Point three: I have no demons with which to conduct your experiment nor a belief that such entities exist in reality. The same goes for Jesus.
I hope you don't take undue offense at what I'm about to say, it is just my personal opinion, but I am going to back away from this thread now and place you onto my ignore list. No acrimony, no rage, no deliberately insulting triumphalism; it's just that I don't believe you are entirely rational and you're making me uncomfortable.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
Posts: 84
Threads: 5
Joined: March 17, 2012
Reputation:
0
RE: Differentiating a religious experience/including hallucinations from a psyc disorder
March 20, 2012 at 3:35 pm
I know biblical Christianity is not mainstream and there is no demonic preoccupation. I just asked for opinions on spiritual manifestations. Jesus commanded us in Mark 16:17 to cast them out in His name and a lot of mainstream Christian churches avoid the issue due to critism like yours.
"If Christianity is untrue, then no honest man will want to believe it, however helpful it might be; if it is true, every honest man will want to believe it, even if it gives him no help at all."
C. S. Lewis - Essay, Man or Rabbit.
|
