Posts: 84
Threads: 5
Joined: March 17, 2012
Reputation:
0
Differentiating a religious experience/including hallucinations from a psyc disorder
March 20, 2012 at 11:50 am
To clarify yesterday's "nevermind" thread regarding mental illness comments in relation to my deliverance. This article has info on DSM-IV differentiating religious experiences from psychotic disorders. http://www.hoje.org.br/site/arq/artigos/...ep2010.pdf
"If Christianity is untrue, then no honest man will want to believe it, however helpful it might be; if it is true, every honest man will want to believe it, even if it gives him no help at all."
C. S. Lewis - Essay, Man or Rabbit.
Posts: 1123
Threads: 18
Joined: February 15, 2012
Reputation:
27
RE: Differentiating a religious experience/including hallucinations from a psyc disorder
March 20, 2012 at 11:52 am
You quote a report which says this about your religious experience;
"The connection between religiousness and psychosis has been verified historically. In the early times of psychiatry, Phillipe Pinel stated that religious fanatacism may be a causative factor of madness and that mad people should be deprived of the symbols and practices of their religion and taught philosophical and historical knowledge. Emil Kraepelin registered the very frequent presence of mystical and religious content in his psychotic patients,"
Did you sign up to this site in hope of therapy?
Self-authenticating private evidence is useless, because it is indistinguishable from the illusion of it. ― Kel, Kelosophy Blog
If you’re going to watch tele, you should watch Scooby Doo. That show was so cool because every time there’s a church with a ghoul, or a ghost in a school. They looked beneath the mask and what was inside?
The f**king janitor or the dude who runs the waterslide. Throughout history every mystery. Ever solved has turned out to be. Not Magic. ― Tim Minchin, Storm
Posts: 66329
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
160
RE: Differentiating a religious experience/including hallucinations from a psyc disorder
March 20, 2012 at 11:58 am
(This post was last modified: March 20, 2012 at 12:18 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Deeply held religious beliefs (and even the religious beliefs of whatever culture you were raised in without a deeply held personal belief) form an exceedingly fertile backdrop and wellspring of hallucinatory suggestions. Even minor superstitions have a way of finding their place into the minds of the mentally ill. Those who differentiate between mental illness and "religious experience" do so for a very solid reason. It's entirely possible to have a convincing "religious experience" without experiencing any sort of mental illness, the reasons for this are specific to the type of experience one is describing, and rarely deviate from societal norms. For example, very few (if any) claim to have a "religious experience" with Thor, or Zues, or Abassi, though these sorts of experiences seem to have been relatively common once upon a time. Of course, I can introduce you to plenty of pagans that speak to their gods regularly (and are completely convinced that it is a two way conversation). The same equipment is being used, but the causal agent is entirely unrelated.
The reasons that your personal narrative of revelation is unconvincing is that a: it cannot be objectively verified, b: it isn't exactly a mysterious or undocumented phenomenon, and c: the world is chock full of competeing revelations, most of which claiming exclusivity on the veracity of their claims. To make a long story short, your mind is completely unreliable in this regard. You can't all be right, but you can all be wrong. You have failed to provide any reason that your personal testimony should be given credence over the testimony of others (and I suspect ythat you would actively criticize such testimony offered in support of any other deity -even you feel that such claims are ridiculous garbage). You simply refuse to subject your own favorite deity from the criticism you would offer of other's either directly or implicitly.
Let's have a little fun with this eh?-
"I have had a personal revelation from the goddess Bastet. I can vouch for her existence. I have not been diagnosed with a mental illness that would account for this and no such illness runs in my family. I am an exceedingly trustworthy person, a business owner and father of four in good standing with my community who apportions a substantial amount of my potential income to charity. I stand to gain nothing from this revelation, nor am I attempting to convert anyone to the cult of Bastet. I do not believe that this was a hallucination (auditory or otherwise), as she provided me with a sound demonstration of her ability, divinity, and benevolence." From what angle would you approach this claim?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 84
Threads: 5
Joined: March 17, 2012
Reputation:
0
RE: Differentiating a religious experience/including hallucinations from a psyc disorder
March 20, 2012 at 12:01 pm
(This post was last modified: March 20, 2012 at 12:02 pm by Hunter9035.)
No more, keep reading....
No I don't need therapy from you, I asked your opinion of verified spiritual manifestations.
"If Christianity is untrue, then no honest man will want to believe it, however helpful it might be; if it is true, every honest man will want to believe it, even if it gives him no help at all."
C. S. Lewis - Essay, Man or Rabbit.
Posts: 4345
Threads: 43
Joined: February 21, 2012
Reputation:
64
RE: Differentiating a religious experience/including hallucinations from a psyc disorder
March 20, 2012 at 12:07 pm
(March 20, 2012 at 12:01 pm)Hunter9035 Wrote: No more, keep reading....
No I don't need therapy from you, I asked your opinion of verified spiritual manifestations.
You don't have to be mentally ill to have a delusion or see things. A lot of kids with good imaginations see all sorts of things when they are young. I myself have had hallucinations after being awake far too long.
Posts: 1123
Threads: 18
Joined: February 15, 2012
Reputation:
27
RE: Differentiating a religious experience/including hallucinations from a psyc disorder
March 20, 2012 at 12:17 pm
(This post was last modified: March 20, 2012 at 12:18 pm by NoMoreFaith.)
(March 20, 2012 at 12:01 pm)Hunter9035 Wrote: No more, keep reading....
No I don't need therapy from you, I asked your opinion of verified spiritual manifestations.
There is no such thing as "verified" spiritual manifestations. If it were verified, it would be within the realms of fact.
If you must know, psychology is a major part of my own education, however arguments should stand on their own, not appeal to authority, and the most telling feature of spiritual manifestations, is that they exclusively compatible with the experiences of your own mind.
For instance, the spiritual experience you have, would have been a completely different deity depending on the culture and experiences you already have.
Another words, it seems that the hallucinations are consistent only with things you are already aware of, even if only on a remote level.
My original point, albeit perhaps cruelly so, is that whilst there are differences between psychotic delusion and religious experience, they are still linked in a form of mental disorder.
Self-authenticating private evidence is useless, because it is indistinguishable from the illusion of it. ― Kel, Kelosophy Blog
If you’re going to watch tele, you should watch Scooby Doo. That show was so cool because every time there’s a church with a ghoul, or a ghost in a school. They looked beneath the mask and what was inside?
The f**king janitor or the dude who runs the waterslide. Throughout history every mystery. Ever solved has turned out to be. Not Magic. ― Tim Minchin, Storm
Posts: 66329
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
160
RE: Differentiating a religious experience/including hallucinations from a psyc disorder
March 20, 2012 at 12:17 pm
(This post was last modified: March 20, 2012 at 12:21 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
I hate to have to be the one to tell you this, but there is no such thing as a "verified spiritual manifestation". There aren't any "verified spirit(s)" to manifest themselves in the first place. Not only have believers failed to produce even the simplest demonstration of the mechanism, they've failed to produce the object in question. There isn't even a plausible suggestion that approaches an explanation for either.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 84
Threads: 5
Joined: March 17, 2012
Reputation:
0
RE: Differentiating a religious experience/including hallucinations from a psyc disorder
March 20, 2012 at 12:19 pm
(This post was last modified: March 20, 2012 at 12:20 pm by Hunter9035.)
Verified by witness of 4 other people FYI is what I meant.
Verified by witness of 4 other people FYI is what I meant. Shared "hallucinations" in sync and witnessing scratches from unseen forces included.
"If Christianity is untrue, then no honest man will want to believe it, however helpful it might be; if it is true, every honest man will want to believe it, even if it gives him no help at all."
C. S. Lewis - Essay, Man or Rabbit.
Posts: 66329
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
160
RE: Differentiating a religious experience/including hallucinations from a psyc disorder
March 20, 2012 at 12:23 pm
(This post was last modified: March 20, 2012 at 12:24 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
A shared hallucination is not an undocumented or mysterious phenomenon, and that's after you've made the case that such a hallucination was shared in the first place (which you have not).
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 1123
Threads: 18
Joined: February 15, 2012
Reputation:
27
RE: Differentiating a religious experience/including hallucinations from a psyc disorder
March 20, 2012 at 12:38 pm
(March 20, 2012 at 12:19 pm)Hunter9035 Wrote: Verified by witness of 4 other people FYI is what I meant. Shared "hallucinations" in sync and witnessing scratches from unseen forces included.
I'm afraid we need more than your word for that. What you have describe is meaningless without data, the people involved, the circumstances of the scratching.. this is all vague.
Certainly a claim of 4 witnesses observing scratches from an invisible source without any obvious causation is not only unusual but as far as I know actually unheard of.
So naturally we're skeptic, every mystery, ever examined, throughout history.. has always turned out to be... Not Magic.
Self-authenticating private evidence is useless, because it is indistinguishable from the illusion of it. ― Kel, Kelosophy Blog
If you’re going to watch tele, you should watch Scooby Doo. That show was so cool because every time there’s a church with a ghoul, or a ghost in a school. They looked beneath the mask and what was inside?
The f**king janitor or the dude who runs the waterslide. Throughout history every mystery. Ever solved has turned out to be. Not Magic. ― Tim Minchin, Storm
|
