Can God love?

[Godscreated]

I'm glad God doesn't listen to people like you. A sin not forgiven is eternal, once committed it is doesn't disappear unless God forgives it.

Wouldn't that be an awful ordeal for you in Heaven though? He may have forgiven your sins but he'll never forget you committed them.

When He forgives sin, He will forget that I ever committed them, so no ordeal to deal with, if there was ordeals to deal with in heaven then there would not be a place called heaven. You're confusing hell with heaven, hell is where there are many, many ordeals to deal with ever moment one is there.

Every time you look upon your god instead of joy and elation, you'll feel misery and despair that you've wronged him in the past. Personally I'd rather not be around such a being. Hell is a kinder more merciful fate compared to that constant state of anxiety and contempt.

Again that would not be heaven, when God finishes His work of judgement every sorrow will be wiped away for all the saved. Now that you have been informed of your error, want to reconsider.

An omniscient God never forgets unless He chooses to, and He has chosen to only through His Son.

He can choose another method can't he? Or is your god too weak to save?

He chose the only way that was possible within His will, He is saving people every day, so no He's not weak, as you and I will find out one day.

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I'm glad God doesn't listen to people like you. A sin not forgiven is eternal, once committed it is doesn't disappear unless God forgives it. An omniscient God never forgets unless He chooses to, and He has chosen to only through His Son.

A sin lasts only as long as the harm it causes. Your god's incapacity to forgive does not make it eternal, it simply makes your god an ass.

Just keep telling yourself that, one day you could come to regret it. Can't you be more original.

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G C

Is God's will supreme?

IOW

If God wills that something happens, will it?
If God wills that something not happen, it will not happen?

Am I correct in what I wrote?

Regards
DL

I smell a trap here, but here goes. God's will has already been, all things have already happened or not happened.

[Engel]

I see you still haven't formulated a reply to my assertion, Godschild. I do genuinely want to hear what response you may have to it.

[Godscreated]

I'm glad God doesn't listen to people like you. A sin not forgiven is eternal, once committed it is doesn't disappear unless God forgives it. An omniscient God never forgets unless He chooses to, and He has chosen to only through His Son.

A "sin" disappears once reparations have been made to the person it was committed against. I wouldn't even use the term "sin". It is a person who has done wrong in my eyes and in society's eyes, thus he has committed an offense against me. Once I forgive him, or her, then their "sin" might as well be forgotten, as nobody is hurt by it any longer. I don't need a god to forgive my sins for me, and his inability to forgive something that man already has just makes him a spiteful dick. And why through his "son"? Jesus was just a man quite like any other. Until you can furnish some legitimate, non-Christian account from the time that accounts for Jesus' resurrection, then I will continue to view him as such. In the words of Martin Luther, "Unless I am convinced by textual evidence and plain reasoning, I cannot and will not recant".

Sorry I missed it some how, could be age is getting to my brain these days.
I've addressed this in other threads, I will give it another shot. If you are serious about the answer you need to consider you or I are not God or anything close. God being perfectly righteous and God to all men, sees that a transgression (sin) is against his righteous standard, and the forgiveness of said sin/s must be asked for through belief in Christ. Now God being eternal, the sin/s against His righteous standard are eternal, even though the sin effects you in some way, and you forgive the person, that has no bearing on the fact that the same sin is against God, and must be forgiven by Him through Christ in order for said sin not to exist any more. God does not forgive sin to help you out necessarily, the sin is forgiven to satisfy the transgression against God's perfect righteous nature. So you see, what someone does against us is also against God, and whether we forgive them or not does not effect their standing with God necessarily, and when or if God forgives them does not effect us necessarily. Before we go to the alter ( that is come before God) to ask forgiveness, God wants us to go to the one who we feel like transgressed against us, and forgive them. Then we can go before God with a clear heart and ask God's forgiveness through Christ. As for the rest of what you said, I have only this to add, Martin Luther lived by faith in Jesus Christ.
PS: I can not offer you any secular documentation about Jesus, but would add this, if the Church at the time of the writing of the NT wanted only to control the people, don't you think it stands to reason, that the Church would have found someone outside the Church to write about Him, money talks you know.

[Engel]

if the Church at the time of the writing of the NT wanted only to control the people, don't you think it stands to reason, that the Church would have found someone outside the Church to write about Him, money talks you know.

The church at the time of the writing of the NT did not want to control people. It was during this time that Christians actually did very admirable works. Once the Church became the state religion under Constantine, then it started to want to dominate people's lives within the Roman Empire and expand itself into pagan areas to the north and east. And yes, I will acknowledge that Luther was a Christian, and a theologian no less. While I may not agree with the sentiment expressed in his writings, I find his works to be well written and thoughtful nonetheless. In fact, many who have influenced my thoughts, from Descartes to Newton to Alexandre Dumas and Dickens and Fyodor Dostoyevsky, were Christians, some devout even.

[Godscreated]

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if the Church at the time of the writing of the NT wanted only to control the people, don't you think it stands to reason, that the Church would have found someone outside the Church to write about Him, money talks you know.

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The church at the time of the writing of the NT did not want to control people. It was during this time that Christians actually did very admirable works. Once the Church became the state religion under Constantine, then it started to want to dominate people's lives within the Roman Empire and expand itself into pagan areas to the north and east. And yes, I will acknowledge that Luther was a Christian, and a theologian no less. While I may not agree with the sentiment expressed in his writings, I find his works to be well written and thoughtful nonetheless. In fact, many who have influenced my thoughts, from Descartes to Newton to Alexandre Dumas and Dickens and Fyodor Dostoyevsky, were Christians, some devout even.

Did the rest of my statement answer your question, or do we need to have more discussions on the issue.

[Welsh cake]

When He forgives sin, He will forget that I ever committed them, so no ordeal to deal with,

How can an omniscient god forget? How could a god who sacrificed his own son for you allow you to forget that he saved you from your sin? Otherwise, what is to stop you from falling away again? What commitment would you have to this god? No, he'll forgive you, but nowhere in the Bible does it say he'll ever let you forget what transpired.

That alone ruins the experience of Heaven. But you're not in Heaven to have fun. You there for his honour, his namesake only. You exist for God's pleasure, not yours. So get to worshipping, you have an eternity of it.

if there was ordeals to deal with in heaven then there would not be a place called heaven. You're confusing hell with heaven, hell is where there are many, many ordeals to deal with ever moment one is there.

Yes the whole war in Heaven not withstanding. Look Satan was PERFECT, you're not nor ever will rise to the rank he once had, the brightest and most beautiful under God. It could happen again and you could be caught up in a possible second war. Whether you're in Heaven, Hell, Limbo or whatever, existence is an ordeal, there is always something happening beyond your control. Oblivion (nothing) is the only true peaceful state.

Again that would not be heaven, when God finishes His work of judgement every sorrow will be wiped away for all the saved.

So he basically gives you amnesia? Disturbing thought.

Now that you have been informed of your error, want to reconsider.

Don't insult my intelligence. You're not trying to convert me, even if you were, you'd have to demonstrate god exists first, and that everything you claim about the deity, including sin and the afterlife, is all true immediately after that.

But no amount of evidence you provide can ever give me a reason why I should like such a being, let alone love.

No, no, stick to learning and strengthening your own faith, that's what you came here to do isn't it?

He chose the only way that was possible within His will, He is saving people every day, so no He's not weak, as you and I will find out one day.

I don't care how strong or weak you think am I or your god is. Its irrelevant. I'm asking if you think god can do more to save? Find other ways you have or haven't considered? If he can't do more then is he not god?

[Engel]

Did the rest of my statement answer your question, or do we need to have more discussions on the issue.

No it certainly didn't provide a satisfying explanation to me, but then again, that's why I am an atheist and you aren't. Arguing it further with me would be pointless as you aren't going to change my mind on the matter. Just some brutal honesty there.

[jess_essential]

Sins are not universally forgiven, they are only forgiven if a person signs a verbal contract with christ. Then and only then, can one begin to be forgiven. And god is supposed to listen to everyone isn't he? Or does he just have selective listening like his followers? :p

[Undeceived]

We are told that God loved his son so much that he planned to have him sacrificed even before the earth was created. This human sacrifice or any other human sacrifice, voluntary or not, is immoral and the notion that it is good to sacrifice an innocent victim to give the guilty believers a free ride into heaven is a completely self-gratifying notion and is completely immoral. One does not show love for someone by having them sacrificed for the sins of others when God himself stated that we are all responsible for our own salvation and cannot put that responsibility of the shoulders of a scapegoat Jesus.

God the Father's love for Jesus is different, though no less bountiful, than His love for us. Jesus is God and He is also His son. Together, they are part of the Trinity. God the Father does not force Jesus to die. Jesus' and His Father's will are one, so Jesus wishes to die for humankind. Jesus loves us so much, he died for us. He also loves His father and respects His wisdom. When you say "sacrifice is immoral" you are assuming that sacrifice is forced on another, rather than chosen by the individual being sacrificed.

Let's put this into an analogy. When a couple has a child, they must give up some of their time together for the child. The father loves his wife. But he also loves his baby. He tells the wife, "It's your turn to feed the baby." She does not like getting up in the middle of the night, but she does anyway. This is because she loves the baby too, and understands she must feed him/her. Is the father being unloving by putting his wife through this discomfort?

Does love need deeds and works to be expressed?

Yes, but showing love does not mean doing exactly what your beloved wishes--rather, what is best for them. A parent should not give a child limitless toys, but instead should teach them discipline and contentment. Do you agree?

[Godscreated]

One does not show love for someone by having them sacrificed for the sins of others when God himself stated that we are all responsible for our own salvation and cannot put that responsibility of the shoulders of a scapegoat Jesus.

Please, show me where in scriptures you found this, I'm curious, I can't seem to find that teaching.