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RE: Someone debate me
July 22, 2012 at 5:07 am
It's fun making stuff up isn't it? Mind you I grew out of that stage years ago. But I guess there's nothing like being a child again eh?
*slowly walks away* Oohh okayyyy....I'll just leave you be now.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - Carl Sagan
Mankind's intelligence walks hand in hand with it's stupidity.
Being an atheist says nothing about your overall intelligence, it just means you don't believe in god. Atheists can be as bright as any scientist and as stupid as any creationist.
You never really know just how stupid someone is, until you've argued with them.
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RE: Someone debate me
July 22, 2012 at 6:37 am
(July 20, 2012 at 9:41 pm)Jeffonthenet Wrote: I don't try to force anyone to believe anything. All I want is a debate using reason and logic.
![[Image: quotes-dr-house-religion-atheism-hugh-la...papers.jpg]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=www.hqwallpapers.net%2Fwallpapers%2Fquotes-dr-house-religion-atheism-hugh-laurie-hq-wallpapers.jpg)
![[Image: mybannerglitter06eee094.gif]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=i118.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fo112%2Fpussinboots_photos%2FBikes%2Fmybannerglitter06eee094.gif)
If you're not supposed to ride faster than your guardian angel can fly then mine had better get a bloody SR-71.
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RE: Someone debate me
July 22, 2012 at 9:21 am
(This post was last modified: July 22, 2012 at 9:28 am by Norfolk And Chance.)
(July 16, 2012 at 10:39 pm)Annik Wrote: MK is a deist; he doesn't buy into Christian dogma. I'll sure he'll be just fine.
But he likes to believe there is a god, and is therefore no use as "opposition" to Jeff, who likes to believe there is a god.
(July 16, 2012 at 11:04 pm)aleialoura Wrote: I'll debate with you.
You want to a debate on the illogicality of god, correct? Yahweh being the god?
You would absolutely destroy him, I hope this debate happens.
You are currently experiencing a lucky and very brief window of awareness, sandwiched in between two periods of timeless and utter nothingness. So why not make the most of it, and stop wasting your life away trying to convince other people that there is something else? The reality is obvious.
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RE: Someone debate me
July 25, 2012 at 1:15 am
(July 21, 2012 at 10:49 am)KnockEmOuttt Wrote: (July 21, 2012 at 9:12 am)Jeffonthenet Wrote: Well you said something about being tipsy made u decide to debate. But we can do it. The debate question was, "is belief in God irrational?"
I'm usually in some state of inebriation when I post on this bored, especially in the evenings. But yeah, fine. I'll do it.
I haven't been able to log onto my account because it was making me change my pass and I couldn't remember my old one, but now that I am back, I'll PM an admin about it.
"the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate" (1 Cor. 1:19)
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RE: Someone debate me
July 25, 2012 at 1:23 am
(July 25, 2012 at 1:15 am)Jeffonthenet Wrote: (July 21, 2012 at 10:49 am)KnockEmOuttt Wrote: I'm usually in some state of inebriation when I post on this bored, especially in the evenings. But yeah, fine. I'll do it.
I haven't been able to log onto my account because it was making me change my pass and I couldn't remember my old one, but now that I am back, I'll PM an admin about it.
Alright.
You really believe in a man who has helped to save the world twice, with the power to change his physical appearance? An alien who travels though time and space-- in a police box?!? ![[Image: TARDIS.gif]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=www.smileyvault.com%2Falbums%2Fuserpics%2F11195%2FTARDIS.gif)
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RE: Someone debate me
July 25, 2012 at 10:59 am
Ok everyone, the debate thread is up. Check it out in the philosophy section.
"the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate" (1 Cor. 1:19)
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RE: Someone debate me
July 25, 2012 at 12:33 pm
I have a feeling this is going to be like the Randall Tex Cobb vs Larry Holmes fight.
Trying to update my sig ...
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RE: Someone debate me
July 25, 2012 at 2:01 pm
(July 25, 2012 at 12:33 pm)Epimethean Wrote: I have a feeling this is going to be like the Randall Tex Cobb vs Larry Holmes fight.
I don't remember anything about it .. oh, wait. What are you saying?
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RE: Someone debate me
August 27, 2012 at 1:17 am
Since I have finished my portion of the debate and this argument never came up, I thought it would be good for me to answer it here.
mysticknight Wrote:If there was a benevolent Creator, there would not exist unnecessary suffering or suffering that would not bring about a greater good.
There exists suffering that is unnecessary and doesn't bring about a greater good.
Therefore a benevolent Creator does not exist.
This isn't exactly the same as the two other arguments "the extent of evil is too much" or "if there is any evil.."
I'm curious. If not, I would suggest someone takes it up with him and argue on that basis since he doesn't want to debate with me about it.
I would disagree with premise two, that there exists suffering that is unnecessary. To claim that there is such suffering, it seems to me, is to say that God could not have a morally sufficient reason for permitting such suffering. However, how does one know that, for any given instance of suffering, (call it "X") God could have no good reason for permitting X. The reason for X being permitted doesn't necessarily have to be for the benefit of the sufferer him/herself. It could even cause a chain of events leading to a future action hundreds of years later which was the reason for X being permitted. In such a case, it seems to me that we are not in a position to say that there is, all things considered, unnecessary suffering in the world.
"the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate" (1 Cor. 1:19)
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RE: Someone debate me
August 27, 2012 at 2:57 am
(August 27, 2012 at 1:17 am)Jeffonthenet Wrote: I would disagree with premise two, that there exists suffering that is unnecessary. To claim that there is such suffering, it seems to me, is to say that God could not have a morally sufficient reason for permitting such suffering. However, how does one know that, for any given instance of suffering, (call it "X") God could have no good reason for permitting X. The reason for X being permitted doesn't necessarily have to be for the benefit of the sufferer him/herself. It could even cause a chain of events leading to a future action hundreds of years later which was the reason for X being permitted. In such a case, it seems to me that we are not in a position to say that there is, all things considered, unnecessary suffering in the world.
As indicated in the other thread, this is the point your beliefs lose any justification and become another example of wish-fulfillment. You are claiming a hypothetical reason that would not only justify, but necessitate that suffering. Meaning, not only this hypothetical explanation would show that the suffering had a particular goal, but that that goal could not have been possibly achieved without that suffering taking place.
What we do see in most cases is that any goal could actually have been achieved without that much suffering taking place - therefore, most of the suffering is actually unnecessary. Therefore, on one hand, you have sufficient explanations to show how any particular suffering could be unnecessary (as in, alternate scenarios where the purported goal could be achieved without it) and you have none to show exactly what suffering with no apparent goal is supposed to accomplish. Your disagreement with premise two is without justification.
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