How would you know?

[Napoléon]

I was thinking about something earlier (doesn't happen often I know). Let's say the god of the bible is the correct one and he exists, for arguments sake.

Let's say I'm a guy born on an island, far beyond current civilisation. There's no bible, no religion, just the island, a small community and people basically living as they did tens of thousands of years ago.

I'm an isolated islander.

How then, will I find out about god. More to the point, how will I find out about the christian, biblical god. And what happens if I don't.

Let's say that I don't.

Seems to me there's only three things which can happen upon death (ofcourse if there are other things I'm missing then you can respond with them).

1. God sends you to hell for not making the effort/not succeeding to try and 'find him'.

2. God lets you into heaven because he senses that you are a good guy/lets you off for not knowing.

3. God notifies you when you reach the pearly gates that there is in fact, a god, and asks you to submit/worship/believe in him or whatever.


In scenario 1, god is an asshole. He's the one who has put you on an isolated island(creator of the universe and all that), and he then punishes you for not finding out what you never knew you had to find out.

In scenario 2, god shows his rules don't mean shit. And he also shows he's favoured you by letting you live in a place where you don't even have to live by his rules/know about him to get into heaven. So again, he's an asshole. He makes the vast majority of the population worship him, and follow his rules, but you, seen as you're a special case? He lets you off. But it was him who made you a special case. So he's showing favouritism. Asshole right?

In scenario 3, he makes a mockery of the whole free will concept. If he's going to reveal himself to you (the fact that you even reach the pearly gates should be an indicator), then he's completely disregarding the whole point of having to believe in god in order to be a christian, and get into heaven. Yet again, he's an asshole.


So, with all that said, how can one seriously rationalise the actions for this supreme asshole. More to the point, why would you believe (want to believe) in this asshole considering these scenarios? What is the thinking behind what will become of such a person, from a christian perspective (or any theistic perspective for that matter). Or am I even missing something else? Is there another scenario, another way which god resolves the issue of the isolated islander. And if there is, is it at all supported by the bible itself. Because if it isn't, then how do you know about it.

I don't often do religious topics for my posts, but this is one of those things which for me, shows how infeasible the concept of an all knowing, all loving, all seeing and all powerful deity is.

So... thoughts?

[catfish]

Romans 2

[The Grand Nudger]

Turks 12?

(If anyone was interested, Cat just offered up one of the very earliest expressions of what would one day become general christian anti-semetism btw)

[Napoléon]

Romans 2

So he's basically like Santa watching over you with his little list of good and bad things.

Where then does that leave the whole "you have to believe in him" argument?

In fact, I basically cover this in my response to scenario 2.

*edit*

As another point, what if what the isolated islander was brought up to believe what is true, and noble, and honourable, didn't conform with gods ideas. Would he be sent to hell?

[catfish]

Romans 2

So he's basically like Santa watching over you with his little list of good and bad things.

Where then does that leave the whole "you have to believe in him" argument?

In fact, I basically cover this in my response to scenario 2.

You can believe any individual you want. Or you can make up your own mind.

Romans 2 usually leaves the whole "you have to believe in him" argument walking away from you...

[Napoléon]

You can believe any individual you want. Or you can make up your own mind.

The fuck does this mean?

Romans 2 usually leaves the whole "you have to believe in him" argument walking away from you...

Yeah, it doesn't deal with it. But there are christians who believe you have to believe in god in order to get into heaven. So what do you say to that? Simply that they are wrong?

[Anomalocaris]

Romans 2

Turks 12

Ostrogoth 17. You lose.

[catfish]

You can believe any individual you want. Or you can make up your own mind.

The fuck does this mean?

It means: "You can believe any individual you want. Or you can make up your own mind."

Romans 2 usually leaves the whole "you have to believe in him" argument walking away from you...

Yeah, it doesn't deal with it. But there are christians who believe you have to believe in god in order to get into heaven. So what do you say to that? Simply that they are wrong?

I try my best to never tell someone they're wrong unless they make claims about me.
However, if you wish to play the role of devil's advocate, play the part of a Christian and I'll do my best to give you an example of how to deal with their exclusionary doctrine.

[Cinjin]

It means: "You can believe any individual you want. Or you can make up your own mind."

Making up your own mind is something we all have done, and you know what - you and the rest of the christards don't accept our position regardless. You don't believe that answer for a second and you sure as FUCK don't practice what you preach.

I try my best to never tell someone they're wrong unless they make claims about me.

You gotta be drunk right now. You've told EVERYONE here they're wrong a dozen god damn times. Thats so ridiculous it's a actually funny. Good job lightening the mood with a dumb joke.


Seriously ... that's funny ... "I try my best to never tell someone they're wrong" LMAO ...that's rich.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

Catholics teach that you would be jut fine,as long as you live according to conscience. I guess that means you could have guilt-free sex with any of the native animals or vegetation.

A few years ago,a senior Australian Catholic prelate (not that slimy George Pell) appeared on TV and asserted that atheists will of course go to heave if they have lived according to conscience.

That position is consistent with Catholic theology,which teaches that to go to hell you must have committed a mortal sin. Venial sins get you purgatory. For a mortal sin to occur, three conditions are necessary; Grave matter, full knowledge [that the action is wrong] and full consent [ you cannot sin against your will]


I'm not entirely confident that the views of that man represent the official views of the Catholic church,as they kind of make it redundant.(along with organised religion generally)


I await the predictable responses from our resident members of the lunar religious right,replete with lashings of biblical quotation . Few ever seem to grasp the futility of quoting the bible to an atheist,or how annoying it is.