Why was the crucifixion necessary ?

[Minimalist]

His god would have been a natural on "I've Got A Secret."

[Godscreated]

Then in turn, I must ask again what would 'evidence' look like to you? What would you consider to be evidence? What tanagible object can one provide that you can not explain away?

To me, if there was a god, there wouldn't be any atheists. God would show it self to all.... and there wouldn't be more than one "belief system"... well, then it wouldn't be much of a "belief".... it would just be known to all that god is "such and such", because he would... tell us all, and keep reminding us all.... always himself, never through strange ancient fallible gullible proxies.

Why do you think God should act in this way? I noticed that you said all would know God, why wouldn't all love God?

[pocaracas]

To me, if there was a god, there wouldn't be any atheists. God would show it self to all.... and there wouldn't be more than one "belief system"... well, then it wouldn't be much of a "belief".... it would just be known to all that god is "such and such", because he would... tell us all, and keep reminding us all.... always himself, never through strange ancient fallible gullible proxies.

Why do you think God should act in this way? I noticed that you said all would know God, why wouldn't all love God?

From my experience, love comes after knowledge that the person being loved exists.

[Whateverist]

I noticed that you said all would know God, why wouldn't all love God?

I don't think there is anything intrinsically lovable about all-powerful (think of Darth Vader) or all-knowing (think of the FBI). Things which everyone goes soft about are kittens, flowers and butterflies.

If God's attributes included omni-cuteness and omni-vulnerableness we'd all be fawning over Him instead of afraid. Well, you know, if we thought he was real at all.

[Drich]

I think I see the problem. Allow me to amend your equasion, maybe this will help.

A=Sinner
B=God
C=Christ.

All sins are commited against God. Therefore God sets the standard in which attonement/compensation must be satasified. God's standard (Righteousness) Demands a Death/Blood shed for any sin. why? Because He says so. (That is the only explaination given.)

Can I say then that the answer to the original question is "because god said so and we don't know his reasons"?

Regards

Grimesy

God said so, and we know His reasons. In that righteousness demands a death for sin. God's creation, God's rules.

[Jackalope]

God said so, and we know His reasons. In that righteousness demands a death for sin. God's creation, God's rules.

Fuck your bloodthirsty imaginary "god".

[Drich]

Then in turn, I must ask again what would 'evidence' look like to you? What would you consider to be evidence? What tanagible object can one provide that you can not explain away?

Oh, I'll take anything you've got and examine it. And if I can explain it away it isn't very godlike, is it?

That's just it why would i want to help you chase your tail. Tell me what you are looking for and I maybe able to help you find it. Don't ask me to help you look for something and not tell me what it is your looking for.

[Jackalope]

That's just it why would i want to help you chase your tail. Tell me what you are looking for and I maybe able to help you find it. Don't ask me to help you look for something and not tell me what it is your looking for.

We've been over this before, Drich. Either you have evidence or you have not. Either you will present what you have, or you will not.

Your response strongly suggests that either you have not any evidence to present, or will not.

[Drich]

I think I spotted your problem, there.
Who told you that?

"we are told" Means we are told in the bible. It is akin to Jesus or Paul saying "it is written."

How did that person come to have that knowledge (use recursion here until you arrive at the origin of the knowledge)?

Romans 6:23 is the orgins of that principle.

To me, if there was a god, there wouldn't be any atheists.

1/2 right. In that if their was undeniable evidence of God their couldn't be any atheists. Which if you look at the big picture it would also mean free will would not be possible either. For self preservation (from Hell) would over ride any consciousness decision to separate oneself from God. However as it is (because of doubt) one can confidently separate himself from God in favor of any number of 'other' beliefs.

God would show it self to all....

If God's objective is to force everyone into Heaven despite what He or she may actually want deep down.

and there wouldn't be more than one "belief system"...

If God were to demand this then many by the token of our individuality would fall short of this one religion. As it is we are all to worship to the best of our ability. Now because we are all different our worship looks different, and the same grace that covers our sins also covers our failed worship. What is left is the purest form of worship one can give. (I went into this in detail in my "The reason for so many denominations" thread.)

well, then it wouldn't be much of a "belief".... it would just be known to all that god is "such and such", because he would... Tell us all, and keep reminding us all.... Always himself, never through strange ancient fallible gullible proxies.

which would undermine His stated reason for giving us this life. to choose where we are to spend eternity.


God plan for this life is to give us choice. True choice would not be possible if one knew of God, Heaven and Hell. For your fear of hell would distort any real choice that you would make. That is why knowledge of God is held back from those who will choose or have chosen to separate themselves from God.

[Minimalist]

Oh, I'll take anything you've got and examine it. And if I can explain it away it isn't very godlike, is it?

That's just it why would i want to help you chase your tail. Tell me what you are looking for and I maybe able to help you find it. Don't ask me to help you look for something and not tell me what it is your looking for.

I'm looking for whatever evidence you think you have of your "god." I'm not fussy. Lay it on the table and let's have a look at it.

If you have any, that is.

God said so

Where?