Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: March 29, 2024, 3:25 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Why was the crucifixion necessary ?
#1
Why was the crucifixion necessary ?
Here is another question I asked at an Alpha course to which I received no answer - not even an unconvincing one!

I asked why there had to be a crucifixion. Couldn't Jesus have come to earth, done the miracles, sermon on the mount, last supper etc. then said “The Romans are coming to arrest me but they will not find me – I am going to my father - be nice to each other and I will return one day (as he ascended into Heaven).” that way you could still have the condition that you have to believe in Jesus but cut out the nasty crucifixion bit. The answer from the vicar was that the crucifixion was the heart of being a Christian. That seemed like circular logic to me – we are Christians because of the crucifixion and the crucifixion made us Christians.

Perhaps another one for the theists on this forum.

Regards

Grimesy
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful. — Edward Gibbon

Reply
#2
RE: Why was the crucifixion necessary ?
Where's the guilt without the crucifixion? Sorry, I'll let the theists answer.
Reply
#3
RE: Why was the crucifixion necessary ?
Because, generally speaking, you have to give something to get something with magic. Scapegoating requires a goat. It's a mystical blanket of reciprocity.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#4
RE: Why was the crucifixion necessary ?
Its a plot device and a lame one at that. The hero dies a gruesome death then "deus ex machina".
Reply
#5
Re: Why was the crucifixion necessary ?
Because God, being omnipotent and omniscient, obviously didn't know what it was to be human and suffer nor had he the power to find out by clicking his magic fingers.
Reply
#6
RE: Why was the crucifixion necessary ?
Grimesy, a question for you. Why the Alpha course and how can you stand it? Big Grin
When I was young, there was a god with infinite power protecting me. Is there anyone else who felt that way? And was sure about it? but the first time I fell in love, I was thrown down - or maybe I broke free - and I bade farewell to God and became human. Now I don't have God's protection, and I walk on the ground without wings, but I don't regret this hardship. I want to live as a person. -Arina Tanemura

Reply
#7
RE: Why was the crucifixion necessary ?
(August 15, 2012 at 7:15 am)pgrimes15 Wrote: Here is another question I asked at an Alpha course to which I received no answer - not even an unconvincing one!

I asked why there had to be a crucifixion. Couldn't Jesus have come to earth, done the miracles, sermon on the mount, last supper etc. then said “The Romans are coming to arrest me but they will not find me – I am going to my father - be nice to each other and I will return one day (as he ascended into Heaven).” that way you could still have the condition that you have to believe in Jesus but cut out the nasty crucifixion bit. The answer from the vicar was that the crucifixion was the heart of being a Christian. That seemed like circular logic to me – we are Christians because of the crucifixion and the crucifixion made us Christians.

Perhaps another one for the theists on this forum.

Regards

Grimesy

Well, the simple answer would be "without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sin" (Hebrews 9:22). The tougher question, I think, is the more general one: why is shedding of blood necessary for the remission of sin?
“The truth of our faith becomes a matter of ridicule among the infidels if any Catholic, not gifted with the necessary scientific learning, presents as dogma what scientific scrutiny shows to be false.”
Reply
#8
RE: Why was the crucifixion necessary ?
Because the OT god is a vengeful, bloody, bastard.

Unfortunately, the later development of the doctrine of the trinity makes the story even more ridiculous.

[Image: 16bf0cw-2.jpg]
Reply
#9
RE: Why was the crucifixion necessary ?
Because God delved into Blood Magic, and liked what he had seen.
Gary Johnson 2012. America's representative for Reason and Logic.
Reply
#10
RE: Why was the crucifixion necessary ?
(August 15, 2012 at 7:15 am)pgrimes15 Wrote: Here is another question I asked at an Alpha course to which I received no answer - not even an unconvincing one!

I asked why there had to be a crucifixion. Couldn't Jesus have come to earth, done the miracles, sermon on the mount, last supper etc. then said “The Romans are coming to arrest me but they will not find me – I am going to my father - be nice to each other and I will return one day (as he ascended into Heaven).” that way you could still have the condition that you have to believe in Jesus but cut out the nasty crucifixion bit. The answer from the vicar was that the crucifixion was the heart of being a Christian. That seemed like circular logic to me – we are Christians because of the crucifixion and the crucifixion made us Christians.

Perhaps another one for the theists on this forum.

Regards

Grimesy

I think I answered this in the other thread.

The crusifiction was a physical manfestation of the turmoil and suffering Christ endured on a spiritual level. He endured this so we would have some idea of the cost of salvation/attonement for sin.
Reply



Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Free will and the necessary evil Mystical 133 16100 December 16, 2022 at 9:17 pm
Last Post: Jehanne
  Free will and the necessary evil Mystical 14 1494 November 11, 2022 at 5:34 pm
Last Post: Ahriman
  Crucifixion question zebo-the-fat 60 4192 April 16, 2019 at 7:50 pm
Last Post: The Valkyrie
  Jesus' Crucifixion a parable Foxaèr 56 5708 October 3, 2018 at 11:04 am
Last Post: tahaadi
  If evidence for god is in abundance, why is faith necessary? Foxaèr 181 36992 November 11, 2017 at 10:11 pm
Last Post: Cyberman
  Pope: Sometimes Husband-and-Wife Splits Become 'Morally Necessary' Pyrrho 34 7526 June 27, 2015 at 2:55 pm
Last Post: LostLocke
  Genesis is not fact, there for Jesus is not necessary? FiveSpotCharlie 58 12252 March 5, 2015 at 6:58 pm
Last Post: Ravenshire
  The crucifixion of jesus and why it doesn't matter dyresand 54 9712 February 11, 2015 at 3:19 am
Last Post: robvalue
  Why did jesus have scars from the crucifixion? Brakeman 17 4144 January 21, 2014 at 8:58 am
Last Post: Anomalocaris
  Who witnessed the crucifixion/resurection? taylor93112 30 7577 June 22, 2013 at 4:45 pm
Last Post: Minimalist



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)