Why did God do Satan’s bidding?

[The Grand Nudger]

They were conferred by creation. They're pretty much anything. And no, parenting isn't creation in this sense. Creation of AI would be closer.

"I made you, I can do whatever I want with you!" Of course you immediately plead for special consideration because you realize how ignorant that sounds. Appeal denied, you'll have to explain to me how creation confers rights, and why the rights conferred by creation are "pretty much anything". You'll also, now that you've mentioned it, explain why you feel that parents don't have these rights.

Good luck.
(AI won't get you any farther with me, because I;m consistent in my application of rights, I wouldn't lord over AI any more than I would accept anyone lording over me. Self determination. If I deny another sentient being a right we have determined originates in sentience then who am I to protest when another labors to deny me that right?)

I don't see that it would be flattering. It wouldn't necessarily be unflattering. It's simply your choice.

Nope, not necessarily, but that does make the example even worse. God could have said something like

"Fuck you satan, I don't feel like letting you shit all over some poor fuckers life just for shits and giggles"

But he didn't...did he? Put yourself in the shoes of a god, just for a moment....would you have done to Job what god did to Job? I doubt it. Howsabout that for a choice?

This "gospel of might" bullshit is getting tired........

[John V]

"I made you, I can do whatever I want with you!" Of course you immediately plead for special consideration because you realize how ignorant that sounds. Appeal denied, you'll have to explain to me how creation confers rights, and why the rights conferred by creation are "pretty much anything". You'll also, now that you've mentioned it, explain why you feel that parents don't have these rights.

Good luck.
(AI won't get you any farther with me, because I;m consistent in my application of rights, I wouldn't lord over AI any more than I would accept anyone lording over me. Self determination. If I deny another sentient being a right we have determined originates in sentience then who am I to protest when another labors to deny me that right?)

How does sentience confer rights, and why isn't that criterion special pleading when made by a sentient creature?

[The Grand Nudger]

Typical shit and run. Would you be disappointed if I refused to reciprocate in this discussion? I sure hope not. Ah well, I guess it just isn't in me, I'll answer your question despite your ignoring mine.

Whens the last time you overheard a rock grumbling about it's "rights"?

[John V]

Typical shit and run. Would you be disappointed if I refused to reciprocate in this discussion? I sure hope not. Ah well, I guess it just isn't in me, I'll answer your question despite your ignoring mine.

Whens the last time you overheard a rock grumbling about it's "rights"?

I'm thinking more about other species, not rocks. Consider the meat and pest control sections of the grocery store. We take great liberties with lesser species. It seems hypocritical to charge God with evil for doing the same.

ETA: BTW I'm assuming you really mean sapient when you say sentient. Let me know if this is incorrect.

[The Grand Nudger]

The best you have is an invocation of the naturalistic fallacy followed by an appeal to hypocrisy?

An explanation for how your god got his rights (why parent don't have them)- and even more strangely, why gods rights abrogate our own completely is still conspicuously absent.

[John V]

The best you have is an invocation of the naturalistic fallacy

I don't see how that applies - can you explain further?

followed by an appeal to hypocrisy?

Yes - people tend to look down on hypocritical positions, at least in others.

An explanation for how your god got his rights

Already explained - via creation. I don't really know how to explain why creation confers rights. Most cultures seem to take that as self-evident. If I create something, I can generally do as I please with it, but you can't do anything with it without my permission.

(why parent don't have them)

Parents did not create their own bodies, and so cannot claim full creation of their children. That's why we have the separate word procreate for the situation. That said, most societies give greater rights over children to the children's parents than to anyone else.

- and even more strangely, why gods rights abrogate our own completely is still conspicuously absent.

It hasn't been established that we have any rights for God to abrogate.

[The Grand Nudger]

I don't see how that applies - can you explain further?

Sure, you noted that we take liberties, that doesn't means that we -should-, textbook.

Yes - people tend to look down on hypocritical positions, at least in others.

That's not really what an appeal to hypocrisy means John.....but yes, we do generally look down on hypocrisy.

Already explained - via creation. I don't really know how to explain why creation confers rights.

Then how can you claim that it does? -In the future, if you can't explain something, just be upfront about it. It's not like I won't keep drilling it down until that becomes evident anyway.-

Most cultures seem to take that as self-evident. If I create something, I can generally do as I please with it, but you can't do anything with it without my permission.

Some things, sure (not people, not here at least), but again, you've mis-stepped and invoked what is as though that is what ought to be.

Parents did not create their own bodies, and so cannot claim full creation of their children. That's why we have the separate word procreate for the situation. That said, most societies give greater rights over children to the children's parents than to anyone else.

Garbage, right off the bat, until you can explain how creation confers rights to begin with. Ignoring that, god didn't create me either, so.......where are we now?

It hasn't been established that we have any rights for God to abrogate.

You don't have any established rights? FFS man, where do you live? I might know someone who can get you a greencard.

[Angrboda]

Here's a question. What's a right, and what does it mean for God to have one? Is a god with rights different from a god without rights. Where did he get them?

Second, I think you're subsuming the right of ownership in this act of creation. I may create a child, and for a time, my rights do resemble property rights, but as soon as that child gains sufficient autonomy in one or more areas, those pseudo-property rights start falling away. Are we God's property then, just as the negroe slaves were the property of European and American slave owners? Is that your relationship to God, do you consider yourself both property and essentially God's slave.

(For what it's worth, I theorize that rights are created by men; the notion of a natural right is an oxymoron to me. But I don't want to derail this away from your views. I simply point this out, a, in the interest of disclosure, and in hindsight, b, the concept of a "right" natural or otherwise, isn't a natural kind; we can't go out into the forest and harvest some rights; rights exist as a concept, deeply embedded in a web of values and philosophy. Where did you get the values and philosophical bulwark that defines rights in such a way that we can infer that God has them? If you say, "from God," then your argument becomes circular and essentially vacuous. Who defines what a right is, how is it defined, what is a right, and are they objective?)

[John V]

Here's a question. What's a right, and what does it mean for God to have one? Is a god with rights different from a god without rights. Where did he get them?

That’s a number of questions.

What is a right? The applicable dictionary definition is: “a just claim or title, whether legal, prescriptive, or moral: You have a right to say what you please.” For this purpose I would word it as “moral authority to perform an action.”

What does it mean for God to have a right? It means he’s morally justified in taking that action.

Is a god with rights different from a god without them? The god itself isn’t any different. People’s reactions to it differ based on their perception of its rights. If God doesn’t have a right to flood the world, he’s a mass murderer. If he does have such right, he’s not.

Where did he get them and, skipping to the end, who defines what a right is? Anyone can claim a right, declare a right for someone else, and define the right anyway they please.

Are they objective? They don’t seem so to me. This is why I couldn’t tell Rhythm why creation confers rights, and why he can’t explain why sentience and/or sapience confer rights. There is no right or wrong answer. So, all we can really strive for is consistency in application.

Second, I think you're subsuming the right of ownership in this act of creation. I may create a child, and for a time, my rights do resemble property rights, but as soon as that child gains sufficient autonomy in one or more areas, those pseudo-property rights start falling away. Are we God's property then, just as the negroe slaves were the property of European and American slave owners? Is that your relationship to God, do you consider yourself both property and essentially God's slave.

I think God has a right to treat me as such, but in his grace he adopts me as a son.

[The Grand Nudger]

Slow down there. You think I didn't explain how sentience determines a right? Rocks don't have rights because they lack the sentience required to manufacture them. Only one of us is standing here with his dick out and nowhere to put it buddy.

Now, please consistently apply your notion of "rights" to a god. I'm willing to bet you can't, you're more interested in exempting your god. You know, "pretty much anything".