Gun Control: Say What you Mean.

[TaraJo]

Let me be blunt: As long as we keep pouring money into this bloated Cold War defense budget, we on the left don't need to concede one damn dime in social safety net or school budget cuts.

It's ironic; the government spending you never hear complaints about winds up being the government spending that goes to big corporations. If we cut our defense budget, some of those poor little defense contractors could lose some money!

Look at other government spending and you see a similar pattern. Do they complain about prison spending? Nope. That money goes to private corporations that build prisons and prison suppliers. Do they complain about subsidies for oil or corn or tobacco? Nope. That money also goes to big companies. The only spending they seem to complain about is the spending that doesn't get funneled through a private corporatio before it's supposed to benefit the public.

[Brian37]

It's ironic; the government spending you never hear complaints about winds up being the government spending that goes to big corporations. If we cut our defense budget, some of those poor little defense contractors could lose some money!

And there lies the problem. The global military industry, not just America, but our enemies as well, are being held hostage by weapons and oil. Breaking that monopoly globally would reduce fear and conflict, but would mean less money for the CEOs shareholders and political families who control them.

All you have to do to expand the weapons market is to sell fear, and use ideology in nationalism, religion, race and then the middle man can stick knives in both sides hands and continue selling both weapons so they get rich.

The world is being duped and the citizens of the world are the pawns.

[Esquilax]

I think you're being too defensive, even there: what the guy is actually saying is "you want to imprison people for disobeying the law?!" Well... yes, yes I do. I'd like to enact restrictions on gun ownership, and punish the people who break those laws, possibly with prison time. Yes, I would like that.

What does the OP think the alternative is? Or is it just that he personally disagrees with the laws gun control activists would like to see, and therefore ANY punishment for breaking them would be crazy and over the top?

You break the law, you get punished, that's part of humanity's social contract. It sounds like the OP has more of a problem with the prison system, than gun control.

Well, even that isn't exactly how I feel.

Yes, I do think we need meaningful gun legislation passed but, no, I don't think it should include locking people up or taking away guns from mass numbers of people.

Truth is, we have a problem with violence here in America. Limiting the guns might help, but at this point it would be kinda like locking the barn door after the cows already ran off. But regulating guns is a different story. I mean, I've heard a comparison from several gun advocates: "Cars kill more people than guns but nobody wants to take away cars." I agree with them here; nobody wants to tak away cars, but cars are VERY highly regulated. There are speed limits, insurance laws, licensing for both the driver and the car (which can be revoked), vehicle inspections, driver testing and laws that prevent you from driving while under the influence of alcohol. So if we're going to compare cars to guns, fine, let's regulate guns as well as we do cars. How about licensing guns? How about getting gun owners to get insurance on their weapons? How about background checks for all gun sales? How about laws that hold people accountable when their improperly stored gun is used criminally by a third party? Every time someone suggests any of these things, half the nation starts screaming "Gubamint gonna tak my guns!" About the only thing the NRA and other gun groups seem to get right is the importance of gun education.

Yeah, I may have oversimplified too, but my issue was mainly with the OP's weird logic, rather than mine or anyone else's stance on gun control.

To be honest, I think you've got it just about right. Here in Australia, guns are strictly regulated- we learned our lesson after our first mass shooting- and the amount of gun violence here just plummeted. You can even still get a gun, if you really want one; you just need to be accountable for it.

[Brian37]

Well, even that isn't exactly how I feel.

Yes, I do think we need meaningful gun legislation passed but, no, I don't think it should include locking people up or taking away guns from mass numbers of people.

Truth is, we have a problem with violence here in America. Limiting the guns might help, but at this point it would be kinda like locking the barn door after the cows already ran off. But regulating guns is a different story. I mean, I've heard a comparison from several gun advocates: "Cars kill more people than guns but nobody wants to take away cars." I agree with them here; nobody wants to tak away cars, but cars are VERY highly regulated. There are speed limits, insurance laws, licensing for both the driver and the car (which can be revoked), vehicle inspections, driver testing and laws that prevent you from driving while under the influence of alcohol. So if we're going to compare cars to guns, fine, let's regulate guns as well as we do cars. How about licensing guns? How about getting gun owners to get insurance on their weapons? How about background checks for all gun sales? How about laws that hold people accountable when their improperly stored gun is used criminally by a third party? Every time someone suggests any of these things, half the nation starts screaming "Gubamint gonna tak my guns!" About the only thing the NRA and other gun groups seem to get right is the importance of gun education.

Yeah, I may have oversimplified too, but my issue was mainly with the OP's weird logic, rather than mine or anyone else's stance on gun control.

To be honest, I think you've got it just about right. Here in Australia, guns are strictly regulated- we learned our lesson after our first mass shooting- and the amount of gun violence here just plummeted. You can even still get a gun, if you really want one; you just need to be accountable for it.

But someone else, in a gun thread, maybe here, cant remember. But posted a claim that "yea, gun death went down in Australia, but all other crime went up",

My counter to that, since I really didn't buy that connection, would be if his said data was true that other crimes went up, would be more likely to economic issues and not lack of guns.

[TaraJo]

And there lies the problem. The global military industry, not just America, but our enemies as well, are being held hostage by weapons and oil. Breaking that monopoly globally would reduce fear and conflict, but would mean less money for the CEOs shareholders and political families who control them.

All you have to do to expand the weapons market is to sell fear, and use ideology in nationalism, religion, race and then the middle man can stick knives in both sides hands and continue selling both weapons so they get rich.

The world is being duped and the citizens of the world are the pawns.

And, yet, in Republican minds across the country, the government is the entity to fear; private business can be trusted.

[downbeatplumb]

So why do you opose social wellfarenetworks financed through taxmoney?


Need a bit of thinky thinky?

Because you shouldn't get healthcare from corporations or the state- you should pay for it yourself.

But if you are too ill to work how are you to pay for it?

You don't use your brain much do you!

[Brian37]

And there lies the problem. The global military industry, not just America, but our enemies as well, are being held hostage by weapons and oil. Breaking that monopoly globally would reduce fear and conflict, but would mean less money for the CEOs shareholders and political families who control them.

All you have to do to expand the weapons market is to sell fear, and use ideology in nationalism, religion, race and then the middle man can stick knives in both sides hands and continue selling both weapons so they get rich.

The world is being duped and the citizens of the world are the pawns.

And, yet, in Republican minds across the country, the government is the entity to fear; private business can be trusted.

The gun Manufactures are like the Porky Pig cartoon where Daffy sells him a futuristic automated home button panel. Every time something went wrong Daffy was there to sell him something else to solve his problems only to create another.

"WHATEVER YOU DO DON'T PRESS THE RED BUTTON"

Porky presses it, turns out to be the "Tidal Wave" button which raises the house.

Daffy flies up to the porch now high in the atmosphere in a chopper and extends his hand out with a blue button in his hand "For another 50 bucks I can install this to get you down".

The problem with guns is that they are not cartoons and the flesh they tear apart are not characters in a cartoon.

[DeistPaladin]

But if you are too ill to work how are you to pay for it?

You don't use your brain much do you!

If he's like Ayn Rand, he'll use Social Security and Medicare when he needs it and say "screw you, Jack, I got mine" until then.

[Brian37]

Because you shouldn't get healthcare from corporations or the state- you should pay for it yourself.

But if you are too ill to work how are you to pay for it?

You don't use your brain much do you!

Oh no, he does. It is simple, social Darwinism solves it, if you cant pay, die.

---

But if you are too ill to work how are you to pay for it?

You don't use your brain much do you!

If he's like Ayn Rand, he'll use Social Security and Medicare when he needs it and say "screw you, Jack, I got mine" until then.

I love these morons, I don't see them willing to give up their social security checks. "But" they say, "I earned that, I pay into it".

Yea, so do all of us, but they stupidly act like all of it is individual accounts like a bank account. No, it is kept track of on paper, yea, but the tax money like all tax money is a pool long term and government constantly dips in other tills to fill other tills and vice versa. Only a balanced budget and or a surplus would get rid of that.

Social security and medicare and medicaid are only in danger because they have been raided to pay for an over bloated military budget and tax breaks for the rich.

[TaraJo]

The gun Manufactures are like the Porky Pig cartoon where Daffy sells him a futuristic automated home button panel. Every time something went wrong Daffy was there to sell him something else to solve his problems only to create another.

"WHATEVER YOU DO DON'T PRESS THE RED BUTTON"

Porky presses it, turns out to be the "Tidal Wave" button which raises the house.

Daffy flies up to the porch now high in the atmosphere in a chopper and extends his hand out with a blue button in his hand "For another 50 bucks I can install this to get you down".

Good metaphor, but it's not just the gun industry that does that. Every corporation out there is like that, not just gun manufacturers. McDonalds and other fast food companies don't hesitate to try to get us to eat their food every day three times a day regardless of what health impact it has on us. Video game companies want us to be addicted to their games, no matter what damage it does to our personal lives. Fossil fuel companies have been going out of their way to prevent green technology from becoming a viable alternative even though prices are going through the roof and there's environmental damage being done.

But I don't really blame the corporations, either. Evolution has impacted the corporate world and the companies that survive and thrive are the companies that are best suited to the current environment. Our current environment favors companies with a single vision of making money regardless of who gets hurt. If a company actually has ethics, you see them getting bought out or simply destroye by a bigger multi-national giant.