Theology Based On An Allegorical Genesis

[FallentoReason]

Simple question: for those of you who believe Genesis is but mere poetry and not history, what does that imply about the New Testament? What does Paul actually mean when he says "through one man, sin entered the world" in Romans 5:12 and why did Jesus need to be crucified to revert the effects of an allegory?

This might have come up before in threads. I just wanted a clear and definite answer to this in order to help me construct an argument I'm working on.

Thanks very much.

[justin]

Catfish will probably say something then contradict himself when stimbo or someone points it out followed by drich and whatever drugs he hoped up on. Good luck on finding a good explanation. And go!

[fr0d0]

Allegory is the wrong word. I fail to see the problem with Jesus, say, backing up a point with a previously established one. The original was never meant to be a scientific explanation, and culturally, Jesus would have been speaking from the same context.
To me it beggars belief how anyone can shoe horn cosmology into it.

[FallentoReason]

Catfish will probably say something then contradict himself when stimbo or someone points it out followed by drich and whatever drugs he hoped up on. Good luck on finding a good explanation. And go!

I've been let down twice in real life when I've asked this. First time was when I was discussing with my friend's dad who has a PhD in theology. We discussed the scenario in the case of a literal Genesis which is the more "straight forward" answer in terms of theology (but not science). Then when I told him I can't go against the doctrine of nature (what science tells us about reality) in favour of religious doctrine, I asked him what it all means allegorically. He hesitated and then literally just shrugged.

The second time was with my dad who is a non-practising Catholic. I don't know how we got onto the topic, but he told me he doesn't really understand why Jesus needed to die on the cross. I explained to him that most Christians I know (Pentecostals) believe in a literal Adam & Eve, therefore Jesus is redeeming mankind for Eve's mistake. My dad is an incredibly rational man who believes in evolution and so he didn't agree with that answer. He sees Genesis as poetry depicting our relationship with God, so I asked him what it all means allegorically. "I don't know" was all he had to say.

I'm interested to see people's answers on here. I already know that Drich likes to have his cake and eat it on this one. God created two "worlds" where one is the garden and the other is the rest of the earth. Then after the events in the garden, Adam & Eve got jiggy with the monkey men who, coincidentally, where at a stage in the evolutionary path equal to where A&E were poofed into being.

[fr0d0]

The answer is in John H Walton's 'the lost world of Genesis one' if you want to know it Justin.

[FallentoReason]

Allegory is the wrong word.

When I say "allegory" I'm using the word rather loosely. I mean it in the opposite sense of "literally" which basically means I'm being very open about my question and allowing all sorts of answers to be formulated; true allegory, poetry, numerology (as explained by Philo of Alexandria), metaphysics... I'm all ears.

I fail to see the problem with Jesus, say, backing up a point with a previously established one.

If by "previously established" you mean Jesus (by which you probably mean Paul, because he talks about creation as being literal) uses the OT as the "previously established" thing to back up his theology, then it means you're not answering the question. What is it that has been "previously established" in a non-literal Genesis? Your answer is what will give meaning to the events of the NT and how they relate to the poetic tone of the OT. In other words, you've answered without answering my question. What does it all mean?

The original was never meant to be a scientific explanation,

Agreed.

and culturally, Jesus would have been speaking from the same context.

So he spoke in a non-literal manner? Under these circumstances, how does a very literal death that he scored come into the poetic Word of God? What's the relationship between poetry and literal events like a crucifixion?

To me it beggars belief how anyone can shoe horn cosmology into it.

I think that's one that you have to sort out with your brothers.

[fr0d0]

So he spoke in a non-literal manner?

No. The literal translation has no science. That's just what modern translators bastardise it to mean. Jesus is addressing the exact meaning, which is lost on the modern audience.

[FallentoReason]

So he spoke in a non-literal manner?

No. The literal translation has no science. That's just what modern translators bastardise it to mean.

I see.

Jesus is addressing the exact meaning, which is lost on the modern audience.

1) You're still answering without actually giving specifics on the "exact meaning".

2) "lost on the modern audience"? What an incompetent god.

In a paragraph, is it possible for you to tell me what you believe as a Christian and why Jesus died for you?

[fr0d0]

What is it that has been "previously established" in a non-literal Genesis?

Literally Genesis sets out the foundation to God's role regarding creation/the universe/reality. It describes creation as a temple where the final piece is him at the centre piloting it.
Non literally it describes talking snakes, man made out of clay, women made out if ribs, etc..

[FallentoReason]

What is it that has been "previously established" in a non-literal Genesis?

Literally Genesis sets out the foundation to God's role regarding creation/the universe/reality. It describes creation as a temple where the final piece is him at the centre piloting it.
Non literally it describes talking snakes, man made out of clay, women made out if ribs, etc..

Your definitions of "literally" and "non-literally" are back to front. That's not a reassuring start at all.........

Right, so "literally" Genesis poetically describes the relationship between God and man. A-ha, so you're up to speed with my dad i.e. you're telling me you believe Genesis is not history. Great, we just reiterated the OP. Now onto the question at hand:

What does this mean in terms of the saviour of the world? Why did he die for you? What did he save us from, an ambiguous and confused poem that proves itself to be too futile to produce a sound theology that answers the question "what did he save us from"?