If Jesus came back to life....what was his sacrifice?

[Polaris]

Being separated from God the Father on the Cross and feeling the anguish of humanity's sins.

As anguish was a matter of free will it is called masochism. So he got a hardon on the cross. Embarrassing perhaps as there were no loincloths.

As he was also the father there was no possible separation from himself. If there was separation there is no trinity. You can't have it all three ways at the same time.

I know you talk bullshit and then claim it is a mystery that you do not understand.

That Trinity issue is addressed in Ephesians.

[Ryantology]

As I am not making the God of the bible up as I go along, I am not
privy to 'think up' answers to satasify every question you may want to
ask. I am "Speaking where the bible Speaks." In doing I have no biblical based answer to give you here as there is no
reason given as to why the wages of sin are death.

You speak what you want the Bible to say.

And, since there is no answer found in the Bible, I think it falls upon us to figure out why the wages of sin are death. What reason can there be when it is all brought about by a God who knows everything and can do anything? There is only one answer: That's what he wants.

Which, I know, is fine by you. You'd see every infant slaughtered in its crib if that's what your God said he wanted. It does present something of a difficulty when the person you debate is a robot which is programmed to repeat what it is told, and one of the things it is told is that reasoning for one's self is a sin.

That said I did speculate that there are far reaching consenquences of sin that maybe we can not understand or see beyond what we already
know.

What possible consequences could negatively affect an omnimax god? Use your imagination if your instruction manual doesn't have an answer. You do still have one, do you not?

If I were God I would make Death the payment for sin simply
because I would not want unrepentant people intermingling with those
who did seek attonement.

So, you don't want the two to mingle, and the option you see is death? That's just the sort of thinking one expects from a megalomaniacal psychopath.

Why do you assume that he was? Are you still working of your
failed understanding that God is omni benevolent to all of Humanity?
Again God's love is boundless for those who Love Him with all of their
being and have A/S/K for understanding and forgiveness. God chose
Death for those who do not seek eternal life.

Obviously, there's nothing omnibenevolent about God. There's nothing benevolent about God. There is nothing nice about God. There is nothing good about God. God cares only about himself and his own desires. He rewards those who do what he is told and punishes those who use the free will he gave them. Again, we are at an impasse because your beliefs are too psychotic for you to understand what is wrong with this.

Sin corrupted 1/3 of the population of Heaven's angels, and as a result forever changed the dynamic of every sentiant being's interactivity with God forever. I would say that there is an effect on God, just not in the way you intend to frame it.

Tell me, how does that scenario not demonstrate that God sucks at design?

One does not have to be under threat to experience the consenquences

One has to be able to suffer consequences to experience consequences. A being which is perfect and omnipotent and all-knowing cannot, by definition, suffer consequences. If it can suffer consequences, it is not all-powerful and all-knowing. It is subject to the laws of reality and therefore could not have created it. Why is it that every time a Christian gets clever and tries to present a scenario like this, they fail to take into account the fact that they have given their god attributes of perfection? And then they preach to us, telling that we can't criticize a god we don't understand.

Why do we put people in Jail? Is it because of our pride? No, We put people in jail because they have demonstrated that they can not live in a soceity bound by rules. So they are locked away from those who can be productive members of soceity to prevent them from corrupting or preying on everyone else.

And we do that because we are not omnipotent, omniscient beings and there is simply no better alternative. Here, again, you place limits upon your own God to explain why he behaves like a psychotic human.

Again How does God differ here than what we have done in our prision systems? After all you personally benefit from prisions now. What do you say we do with convicted prisioners? Forgive them and let all of them Go?

Again, what do you you do when you have unlimited power and intelligence? If your God is so much more powerful and smarter than we are, why is it that he is incapable of ever coming up with solutions which are in any way more effective or less brutal than what we poor, dumb sacks of meat can come up with?

you are bound to sin like everyone else. Therefore your perspective is
like that of everyone else. What you think you have has been
identified by Christ 2000 years ago as Self Righteousness.

By outside perspective, I mean that I have been on both sides of the fence across which we argue. I just do not share your opinion that a being is righteous just because he says he is. Even if your God is real, his righteousness is his own opinion, and what sadistic tyrant in history did not take the opportunity to make himself out to be more righteous than everybody else? Being righteous is little more than giving yourself an excuse to kill those whom you decide are less righteous than you are.

Wow, I pointed to your 'feelings' as self righteousness, before I read all of this.. Now my assessment has been confirmed.

You are just as self-righteous as I am. The only difference is, you are self-righteous in the name of a God so that you feel better about it. In spite of whatever you'll actually say, you think that you are superior to everybody else because you do what your righteous god says.

How are God's actions
differ from your own? In your self righteous manifesto you take on the
authority and mantle of God for yourself descerning what is right and
what is wrong, juding all of creation by your own standard.. Yet when
God does this very thing it some how becomes immoral in your eyes...
Can you explain why God does not have the authority to be God, but
somehow you do.

I am not perfect. I am not all-powerful and all-knowing. I do not pretend that I have no flaws. I would not murder people en masse and then tell people that I love humanity. How are God's actions different from mine? Being omni-everything leaves you with no excuse for evil and cruelty.

Is this what you seriously think? If Christians do not see themselves
as evil then why has any of us sought attonement/Forgiveness of our
sins? Paul in Roman 7 even points out his inablity to seperate himself
from from his evil desires. If Paul can not help but to be evil then
what hope do any of us have?

I think you think you are evil only because the Bible says you are. Outside of your god-given directive to hate yourself and humanity, do you think that you are a bad, wicked, cruel person?

This is where your understanding of
History, Religion and Christianity has failed you.

There you go, again with the self-righteous attitude that your understanding of Christianity is superior to everyone else's.

Yes, Blood is required to pay for sins

Is this a requirement because God enjoys blood to spill, or because he is not smart or powerful enough to come up with an alternative? You still do not answer the question.

If God was loving and merciful to everyone why or rather how could He
send anyone to Hell? That must mean God is Loving and merciful to
those in whom He consideres to be His Children, and to Hell with
everyone else. (literally)

I didn't ask if he was loving and merciful to everyone, but to anyone. Do you think that a being who would see you burn in hell if you made a different choice actually loves you just because you made the choice he wanted you to make? If you really believe that, you're a bigger idiot than I ever thought.

Begging the question.
We are not being extorted. We are all on a train speeding to Hell. We
were all born on this train. What God has done is to provide a way off
of this train for anyone willing to walk through the exit He has
provided. He makes no one leave the train those who want to stay are
welcome to stay, but for those who do not want to ride the train to
it's final destination He has provided a way off the train.

Did he not create that train? Did he not put you on it? We require salvation from the moment we are born. We are set to be punished before we have any capacity to do anything to avoid the punishment in the first place. Even the most pure, innocent, and devout person from birth still has to beg for salvation from God. And it's all for a crime committed thousands of years ago, by a man and woman who never even actually existed. That is a textbook definition of extortion.

Infact I can demonstrate everything God says in the bible to be
true. (As we have previously ) The only problem is if I take all of
the steps needed to show you want you want to see it would be too late
for you to do anything about it. (You would be dead)

If you cannot demonstrate the reality of your god in the physical world you insist he created, you cannot possibly have any proof to show.

Quote:All that prevarication says to me is that you are a liar making
false claims. Put up or shut up.
The only way I have to
proove any of this to you is to kill you, there by sending you to the
afterlife to see it all for yourself. But again as I said if I do that
it will be too late for you to do anything about it. If you are still
wanting me to put up or shut up All I need is an address and a reason.

I can prove to you that there's no afterlife in precisely the same way.

Not according to Luke 11 you did not. For the example Christ
leaves us in Luke 11 has the A/S/K'er repeating that process till he
gets what he is looking for.

Kids, what has Drich just described?

The logical fallacy of the confirmation bias?

That's correct!

[Minimalist]

Suppose you were being assaulted and someone stepped in to save you, thereby taking a beating or bullet in the process.

But we aren't being assaulted, are we? In fact, last time we were assaulted it was by the followers of this alleged god you think is so hot.

[A_Nony_Mouse]

As anguish was a matter of free will it is called masochism. So he got a hardon on the cross. Embarrassing perhaps as there were no loincloths.

As he was also the father there was no possible separation from himself. If there was separation there is no trinity. You can't have it all three ways at the same time.

I know you talk bullshit and then claim it is a mystery that you do not understand.

That Trinity issue is addressed in Ephesians.

I was addressing your statement. I have interest in long dead crackpots.

[John V]

Suppose you were being assaulted and someone stepped in to save you, thereby taking a beating or bullet in the process.

But we aren't being assaulted, are we?

That's why I said "suppose," Sherlock. Most people don't actually experience something like this.

[frankiej]

What was Jesus' sacrifice? He sacrificed an entire weekend! That's deep, maaaan. He could have skinned up and spent those couple of days blazed out of his mind, but he didn't... what a guy!

[catfish]

I was addressing your statement. I have interest in long dead crackpots.

Totally self-absorbed, eh?
.

[Minimalist]

But we aren't being assaulted, are we?

That's why I said "suppose," Sherlock. Most people don't actually experience something like this.

I have the same objection to your "supposed" god. WTF needs him?

[A_Nony_Mouse]

I was addressing your statement. I have no interest in long dead crackpots.

Totally self-absorbed, eh?
.

How is an interest in your statement self-absorbed?

[catfish]

Totally self-absorbed, eh?
.

How is an interest in your statement self-absorbed?

Pay attention to what I wrote, when I wrote it, and how often I posted in this thread.

So, now you may not be totally self-absorbed, but it's starting to appear that you're a bit obsessed with me if you think you were addressing my "statement".

And you're fat...
.