Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?

[smax]

You gotta love how Christians argue that the Bible is the infallable word of god, but they can't agree on which books.

LOL

[jlobb1]

http://www.desiringgod.org/blog/posts/why-jesus-wept

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http://www.desiringgod.org/blog/posts/why-jesus-wept

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in union with the Messiah Jesus our Lord.

[Godscreated]

http://www.desiringgod.org/blog/posts/why-jesus-wept

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http://www.desiringgod.org/blog/posts/why-jesus-wept

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in union with the Messiah Jesus our Lord.

Welcome to the forum jlobb1, hope you enjoy being with us.

[max-greece]

First post other than my introduction to the forum....here goes:

I find the story of Jesus dying on the cross to save everyone from there sins somewhat confusing particularly in the light of the concepts of Hell and Purgatory.

Several issues:

1. It is disconcerting to me that someone else is paying my bill without me asking him to and then expects worship in return.

2. If Jesus died for my sins doesn't that mean that they are fully paid for? What is confession is that is the case? What is Purgatory? Any sin has already been paid for - I am not used to the idea of paying a bill that has already been paid. How many times does one sin have to be paid for in Christianity?

3. Generally the picture of Jesus on the cross generates pity in me for him. Not only nailed to a cross but carrying the sins of the world on his shoulders. It makes me immediately want to opt out so that at least he is not carrying my sins - I am happy to do that on my own and face the consequences. If I could do that wouldn't it reduce his load? Wouldn't that be the Christian thing to do?

[Godscreated]

First post other than my introduction to the forum....here goes:

I find the story of Jesus dying on the cross to save everyone from there sins somewhat confusing particularly in the light of the concepts of Hell and Purgatory.

Several issues:

1. It is disconcerting to me that someone else is paying my bill without me asking him to and then expects worship in return.

Would you have even known you needed someone else to pay for your sins if it wasn't for the Bible, that is if you care anything about knowing. I bet if someone payed off all your bills for the rest of your life you would not be disconcerted, you would be like me, dancing in the streets.

2. If Jesus died for my sins doesn't that mean that they are fully paid for? What is confession is that is the case? What is Purgatory? Any sin has already been paid for - I am not used to the idea of paying a bill that has already been paid. How many times does one sin have to be paid for in Christianity?

They are fully paid for as long as you accept Christ as your Lord and savior. You must confess your sin to Christ and be repentant of those sins. There is no Purgatory, that is a Catholic doctrine, I find no Biblical support for it. Your sins will be paid for once By Christ as long as you accept Him as your Lord and Savior, they will be scattered as far as the east is from the west, never to be seen by the Father.

3. Generally the picture of Jesus on the cross generates pity in me for him. Not only nailed to a cross but carrying the sins of the world on his shoulders. It makes me immediately want to opt out so that at least he is not carrying my sins - I am happy to do that on my own and face the consequences. If I could do that wouldn't it reduce his load? Wouldn't that be the Christian thing to do?

It would not reduce the burden He suffered, it has been done, He died with your sins on His shoulders, if He had not then your sin would have remained an you would of had no choice in your eternal destination. Do you really understand what the consequences of your sins are, I would not think so or you would not have made that statement. If and I say if you meant it bothered you to see Christ on the cross, then it should really bother you to think of spending one second in hell, let lone eternally. No it would not be the Christian thing to do, actually you would be doing exactly what Satan desires.

Welcome to the forum max-greece, hope you enjoy your stay.

[NoraBrimstone]

“Amen, I say to you, you will not be released until you have paid the last penny.” Matthew 5:26
"If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames." 1 Corinthians 3:14-15

What's that got to do with the price of fish?

[max-greece]

Would you have even known you needed someone else to pay for your sins if it wasn't for the Bible, that is if you care anything about knowing. I bet if someone payed off all your bills for the rest of your life you would not be disconcerted, you would be like me, dancing in the streets.

Really? You would be dancing in the street? You wouldn't want to know who was paying your debts and why? There is no free lunch. Anyone who does such a thing does it for a reason. You might find its a mob-boss and that he feels you now owe him. Accepting gifts is fine as long as you know them to be gifts with no strings attached. Is this the case here? It appears not. The fee is worship.

"They are fully paid for as long as you accept Christ as your Lord and savior. You must confess your sin to Christ and be repentant of those sins. There is no Purgatory, that is a Catholic doctrine, I find no Biblical support for it. Your sins will be paid for once By Christ as long as you accept Him as your Lord and Savior, they will be scattered as far as the east is from the west, never to be seen by the Father."

It would not reduce the burden He suffered, it has been done, He died with your sins on His shoulders, if He had not then your sin would have remained an you would of had no choice in your eternal destination. Do you really understand what the consequences of your sins are, I would not think so or you would not have made that statement. If and I say if you meant it bothered you to see Christ on the cross, then it should really bother you to think of spending one second in hell, let lone eternally. No it would not be the Christian thing to do, actually you would be doing exactly what Satan desires."

Interesting. Pre-destination. If Jesus has already died on the cross then whether I confessed or not is already decided. Any sin I commit or will commit was already known. I can feel my freedom slipping away as I type. Why do I need to confess that which is already paid for and that which is already known even before I know it myself.

How do you know what Satan wants?

Further, is there no sense of balance in Christianity? Jewish faith says we are weighed in the balance with good deeds on one side (Mitzvah's) and bad on the other (what you would call sins). One nice touch is that for children their sins are borne on the shoulders of their parents until they reach the age of maturity (Bar or Bat mitvah) or about 13 years old. I am filling a request to take my daughters until she is 18.

"Welcome to the forum max-greece, hope you enjoy your stay."

Thank you. I think I might.

[The Grand Nudger]

I am filling a request to take my daughters until she is 18.

Here here, and well beyond that. Unfortunately, if said adjudicator isn't a mouth-breather our requests will likely be denied.

[max-greece]

"if said adjudicator isn't a mouth-breather ..."

Yeah- they are an intolerant bunch those nose breathers....

[smax]

What's that got to do with the price of fish?

I believe he was establishing a biblical basis for purgatory.