One question for Christians

[Bad Writer]

SW, what do you think of the idea that if this Judeo-Christian god were to face trial at the hands of a world court for crimes against humanity that he would end up convicted of countless atrocities committed against the human race?

On another note, if a creator has the power to do with his/her creation as it so pleases that individual, then what of parents that create children? Is it therefore alright for you and your wife to lop off the hands of your son or daughter if you caught him or her stealing from the cookie jar?

I predict a claim from you that this analogy is false, but this will be yet another example of you avoiding a hard question, and therefore continuing your support of a genocidal (imaginary) maniac.

[Statler Waldorf]

SW, what do you think of the idea that if this Judeo-Christian god were to face trial at the hands of a world court for crimes against humanity that he would end up convicted of countless atrocities committed against the human race?

Are you suggesting that the human race does not deserve such treatment?

On another note, if a creator has the power to do with his/her creation as it so pleases that individual, then what of parents that create children? Is it therefore alright for you and your wife to lop off the hands of your son or daughter if you caught him or her stealing from the cookie jar?

Parents do not create their children. There’s no new matter created. God providentially created those children and the rights that the parents possess over their children are given to them by God.

I predict a claim from you that this analogy is false, but this will be yet another example of you avoiding a hard question, and therefore continuing your support of a genocidal (imaginary) maniac.

In order for something to be an analogy, it has to first be analogous. Try again.

[Bad Writer]

SW, what do you think of the idea that if this Judeo-Christian god were to face trial at the hands of a world court for crimes against humanity that he would end up convicted of countless atrocities committed against the human race?

Are you suggesting that the human race does not deserve such treatment?

Genocides are not treated lightly in today's world. I know this is a hard question, but I still want you to answer it honestly.

On another note, if a creator has the power to do with his/her creation as it so pleases that individual, then what of parents that create children? Is it therefore alright for you and your wife to lop off the hands of your son or daughter if you caught him or her stealing from the cookie jar?

Parents do not create their children. There’s no new matter created. God providentially created those children and the rights that the parents possess over their children are given to them by God.

Oh puh-leeze. I know exactly how babies are made, so you can't pull this one on us. Re-organized matter sound better to you? Also, by what mechanism does your god create? By the way, nice non-answer, but I see that you couldn't answer correctly anyway because you don't even know the first thing about creation, whether it's done by us or your god.

I predict a claim from you that this analogy is false, but this will be yet another example of you avoiding a hard question, and therefore continuing your support of a genocidal (imaginary) maniac.

In order for something to be an analogy, it has to first be analogous. Try again.

Yeah, I figured you'd say something like this. I had a gut instinct that you didn't like the idea that we as humans were capable of creating anything, much less our own children. I don't need to try again because I wasn't the one that failed here.

[tokutter]

Does Statler's god not have the right to tell him he will never lie to his creation and then do so???


.

Why are you struggling with this? God has the right to do whatever He pleases with His creation, and yet there are certain things God would never do because they are contrary to His character. That’s pretty simple.

Stat I'm not struggling....you missed my point......maybe the thing that pleases your god to do to his creation is sell them a story (including his nature and anything else he handcuffed himself with) and then flip the script at the end

One things for sure.......between the jews ....you christians and the mormons.....gods screwing with someone

And by the way thanks for ruining two of my favorite characters from childhood.



.

[Mystical]

Dear Statler, Before I respond to your post I'd like you to provide evidence for your claim that the Jesus of the bible is indeed confirmed to have existed by Historians and that you have an eye witness account to Jesus' life, death, or resurrection.

[Bad Writer]

Apparently the NT is all he needs. We can explain to him all the problems with that, but it isn't anything a dose of special pleading won't solve.

[Ryantology]

Are you suggesting that the human race does not deserve such treatment?

Absolutely it doesn't. Your god's justification for his psychopathic bloodlust is only satisfactory to other psychopaths, such as yourself.

[Tonus]

I love discussing with you because I always agree with exactly half of what you write. If you deserve to have your head cut off and you only have your fingers cut off are you really in a position to complain? That seems a bit ridiculous.

Of course you are in a position to complain! You just won't be able to point anything out.

[Statler Waldorf]

Genocides are not treated lightly in today's world. I know this is a hard question, but I still want you to answer it honestly.

I have already; if humanity actually deserves worse than they are getting from God then it’s a moot issue because He’s actually showing mercy.

Oh puh-leeze. I know exactly how babies are made, so you can't pull this one on us. Re-organized matter sound better to you? Also, by what mechanism does your god create? By the way, nice non-answer, but I see that you couldn't answer correctly anyway because you don't even know the first thing about creation, whether it's done by us or your god.

Your supposed analogy was not analogous then, you were trying to compare re-organizing matter with creating matter ex nihilo. God owns mankind because mankind is part of God’s creation, parents do not own their children in the same sense. They have been given rights over their children by He who actually owns their children. Find someone who creates something from nothing and I will agree with you that they can do whatever they please with it.

Yeah, I figured you'd say something like this. I had a gut instinct that you didn't like the idea that we as humans were capable of creating anything, much less our own children. I don't need to try again because I wasn't the one that failed here.

Wait, so even though you knew the analogy was fallacious you still presented it? Why?

Stat I'm not struggling....you missed my point......maybe the thing that pleases your god to do to his creation is sell them a story (including his nature and anything else he handcuffed himself with) and then flip the script at the end

Perhaps, but that’s just the old solipsistic Descartes’ evil demon argument. It doesn’t prove anything because it can apply to any theory of knowledge. The naturalist cannot prove he’s anything more than a singular brain in a vat being stimulated to experience reality either, but so what?

One things for sure.......between the jews ....you christians and the mormons.....gods screwing with someone

Well the Jews worship the same God, they just missed the Messiah. Mormonism entails numerous gods.

And by the way thanks for ruining two of my favorite characters from childhood.

You’re welcome.

Dear Statler, Before I respond to your post I'd like you to provide evidence for your claim that the Jesus of the bible is indeed confirmed to have existed by Historians and that you have an eye witness account to Jesus' life, death, or resurrection.

Well the first one is so concrete that you won’t be able to find two historians that deny the existence of Jesus; so I do not know what you want me to do, just start naming history professors at Universities? It’s like asking someone to prove that the majority of historians believe Napoleon existed; it’s silly to even ask.

"He certainly existed, as virtually every competent scholar of antiquity, Christian or non-Christian, agrees"- Bart Ehrman, 2011 Forged P. 285

“No serious scholar has ventured to postulate the non historicity of Jesus or at any rate very few, and they have not succeeded in disposing of the much stronger, indeed very abundant, evidence to the contrary."- Jesus: An Historian's Review of the Gospels by Michael Grant p. 200

"There are those who argue that Jesus is a figment of the Church’s imagination, that there never was a Jesus at all. I have to say that I do not know any respectable critical scholar who says that anymore."- Jesus Now and Then by Richard A. Burridge and Graham Gould, p. 34

The writer of the Gospel of Matthew was an eye witness to Jesus, as was John. Mark wrote his gospel using the testimony of Peter who was an eye witness to Jesus. Luke was a contemporary historian and physician who knew the apostle Paul and based his gospel off of eye witness accounts. The writer of the epistles, Paul, knew the disciples and based his knowledge of Jesus from their accounts. Jude was the half-brother of Jesus and wrote the book of Jude. Numerous early church fathers write of Jesus and based their writings off of their interactions with the disciples and other eye witnesses. We have an embarrassment of riches really. No other historical figure from that time period is as well attested to as Jesus. I guess I should not be too surprised that there are people who conveniently believe that Jesus never existed, after all many anti-Semites will also deny that the Holocaust ever happened as well. People will believe what they want to believe.

Apparently the NT is all he needs. We can explain to him all the problems with that, but it isn't anything a dose of special pleading won't solve.

A vast majority of historians agree with me, the New Testament and its multiple contemporary authors is all we need. The Jesus Myth crowd is the type of fringe movement that can only be perpetuated by the internet. It is no wonder that many atheists now are beginning to try and distance themselves from it.

Speaking of special pleading, what other historical figures do you also deny existed?

Absolutely it doesn't.

According to whom? You? Why do you still seem to labor under the delusion that your mere opinion proves a thing?

Your god's justification for his psychopathic bloodlust is only satisfactory to other psychopaths, such as yourself.

Do you usually get destroyed in debates by psychopaths or is it just when debating me? I was quite impressed with how well your Steelers played on Sunday by the way, that was some championship football

[Brakeman]

Genocides are not treated lightly in today's world. I know this is a hard question, but I still want you to answer it honestly.

I have already; if humanity actually deserves worse than they are getting from God then it’s a moot issue because He’s actually showing mercy.

What does one do to deserve genocide? What qualities can you enumerate that our "god given senses of right and wrong" will agree on that deserve genocide and it's related torture, death, and subsequent eternal torture?

Dear Statler, Before I respond to your post I'd like you to provide evidence for your claim that the Jesus of the bible is indeed confirmed to have existed by Historians and that you have an eye witness account to Jesus' life, death, or resurrection.

Well the first one is so concrete that you won’t be able to find two historians that deny the existence of Jesus; so I do not know what you want me to do, just start naming history professors at Universities? It’s like asking someone to prove that the majority of historians believe Napoleon existed; it’s silly to even ask.

Wrong!

"Jesus Never Existed" - Ken Humphrey (1)
and Robert M. Price. (2)
AND ME (3)

a few more:

Harold Leidner, 2000, The Fabrication of the Christ Myth.

Robert M. Price: Deconstructing Jesus. 2003. As ref'd above

Hal Childs, 2000, The Myth of the Historical Jesus and the Evolution of Consciousness

Dennis MacDonald, 2000, The Homeric Epics and the Gospel of Mark.

Burton L. Mack The Christian Myth: Origins, Logic, and Legacy.

Luigi Cascioli, 2001, The Fable of Christ. Indicting the Papacy for profiteering from a fraud!
Israel Finkelstein, Neil Silberman, 2002, The Bible Unearthed

Frank Zindler, 2003, The Jesus the Jews Never Knew.

Daniel Unterbrink, 2004, Judas the Galilean.

Tom Harpur, 2005, The Pagan Christ: Recovering the Lost Light.

Francesco Carotta 2005, Jesus Was Caesar.

Joseph Atwill, 2005, Caesar's Messiah: The Roman Conspiracy to Invent Jesus
Michel Onfray Traité d'athéologie (2007 In Defence of Atheism):

Kenneth Humphreys, 2005, Jesus Never Existed. As ref'd above

Jay Raskin, 2006, The Evolution of Christs and Christianities

Thomas L. Thompson, 2006, The Messiah Myth.

Jan Irvin, Andrew Rutajit, 2006, Astrotheology and Shamanism

Roger Viklund, 2008. Den Jesus som aldrig funnits (The Jesus who never existed).

Richard Carrier - Not the Impossible Faith and Sense and Goodness without God.

D. M. Murdock (Acharya S) The Gospel According to Acharya S

Earl Doherty Jesus: Neither God Nor Man - The Case for a Mythical Jesus
Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy -The Jesus Mysteries

"He certainly existed, as virtually every competent scholar of antiquity, Christian or non-Christian, agrees"- Bart Ehrman, 2011 Forged P. 285

“No serious scholar has ventured to postulate the non historicity of Jesus or at any rate very few, and they have not succeeded in disposing of the much stronger, indeed very abundant, evidence to the contrary."- Jesus: An Historian's Review of the Gospels by Michael Grant p. 200

"There are those who argue that Jesus is a figment of the Church’s imagination, that there never was a Jesus at all. I have to say that I do not know any respectable critical scholar who says that anymore."- Jesus Now and Then by Richard A. Burridge and Graham Gould, p. 34

The writer of the Gospel of Matthew was an eye witness to Jesus, as was John. Mark wrote his gospel using the testimony of Peter who was an eye witness to Jesus. Luke was a contemporary historian and physician who knew the apostle Paul and based his gospel off of eye witness accounts. The writer of the epistles, Paul, knew the disciples and based his knowledge of Jesus from their accounts. Jude was the half-brother of Jesus and wrote the book of Jude. Numerous early church fathers write of Jesus and based their writings off of their interactions with the disciples and other eye witnesses. We have an embarrassment of riches really. No other historical figure from that time period is as well attested to as Jesus. I guess I should not be too surprised that there are people who conveniently believe that Jesus never existed, after all many anti-Semites will also deny that the Holocaust ever happened as well. People will believe what they want to believe.

I would bet that if you asked all the mormons if "Moroni" existed then they too would overwhelmingly agree that he did. We have been so flooded with the stupid mess of religiosity and with the underlying threat against dissension that the scholarly world has not had time to freely consider the possibility that he is completely fictional.

Consider how and where one becomes a "bible scholar." Colleges that fund a christian studies program would not be willing to continue to have one if the premise were shown that he does not exist. That wouldn't make the college benefactors very happy would it? Do "Historians" often work themselves out of a job?

Lastly, It matters not the least whittle what some self badged "historian" thinks. There is no qualification to be called a "Historian or bible scholar" It is simply someone who is studying the topic, nothing more.

The more telling glimpse into the truth can be seen when people ask for the evidence that Jesus was real, the Bart Erhmans of the world continue to stammer and provide nothing.

There is a complete lack of contemporary art of jesus, despite the ubiquity on other major historical figures of the time. Why?
Evidence is what matters.