Atheists and Agnostics risk infinite loss for no gain

[Doubting Thomas]

The bird blood cure for leprosy is kinda a hoot too.

I thought the idea of houses getting leprosy was pretty funny, too.

[xpastor]

Yeah, I think it's one of those instances where you had to be there. The sermon on the mount, for instance, was probably Jesus doing a twenty-minute standup routine, but it didn't come across on the page.

The reviews were pretty lousy, as well. Probably why they closed the same night.

I can't resist quoting this sf story at some length. The narrator is a galactic talent agent reminiscing, and after several anecdotes he tells the story of his favourite client.

From "Acts" by William Sanders in I Alien, ed. Mike Resnick (DAW)

Let me tell you about the comic.

Or rather tell you what happened, I can’t really tell you about him. Can’t do justice to his talent with a simple description, you’d have had to see him in action to fully comprehend just how great he was. And yes, great I said and great I meant. All these people like to think of themselves as “artists,” but in his case it was the simple truth. A genuine comic genius is what he was, and he could just maybe have been the greatest ever, if only—but I’m getting ahead of myself.

I found him working open mike night at a cheap club down in the Ginzorninplad district. He’d just gotten into town, worked his way here from his home- world aboard a worn-out old tub of a bulk freighter, and he didn’t have much more than the clothes on his back. I watched his act and then I caught him back stage and signed him up, just like that. And said some very sincere prayers to Hnb’hnb’hnb for granting me the privilege.

---

I got him a few local gigs and he did just fine, even got some good ink from the critics. But you know this town; an outsider has a tough time getting accepted. Especially an outsider from, and I don’t mean this in any derogatory way, a different-looking race. I hate to say that, but it’s true.

So when this opening turned up for a long offworld tour, I advised him to go for it. Oh, it wasn’t much of a booking—the world was a pretty backward sort of place, off in a distant arm of the galaxy where hardly anybody ever went even to visit, and the pay was worse than lousy.

But I didn’t really have anything else for him at the moment; things were slow, all the best clubs were booked up solid. And I figured this was a chance for him to get some experience, develop his material, and practice his technique out in the sticks without having to worry about bombing because even if he did have a bad night nobody who mattered would ever hear about it. Meanwhile I could work on lining up something better for him.

Well, what can I say? It seemed like a good idea at the time, I should hit myself repeatedly with the nearest blunt object.

Don’t get me wrong, it’s not that he went into the sandbox or anything like that. On the contrary, they loved his act—or at least they loved him; right away, almost as soon as he arrived, they started making a big fuss over him. In no time at all he was playing to packed houses.

You understand, he was sending back regular reports, keeping me up on what was going on, and every time I heard from him, he sounded more amazed. People followed him around on the street, came up to him wanting to meet him and trying to touch him, and before long he even had his own fan club. In fact there were about a dozen of them who took to traveling around with him, seeing to his needs, just like he’s a big superstar.

But what was really strange was the way the audiences reacted to his act. Nobody ever laughed. He’d do his funniest routines, stuff that would make a Rhrr laugh, and they’d just sit there staring at him with these very serious faces and nod and look at each other and nod some more, like he’d just said some thing wise and profound.

He tried everything. He even tried dumping his own material, since they didn’t seem to get it, and doing corny old gags about farmers and animal herders and fishermen, thinking maybe they just weren’t ready for sophisticated modern humor. Didn’t make a bit of difference. They still came to see him, more and more all the time, but they still didn’t laugh.

And this was starting to make him crazy, as you can imagine. He got so desperate he started doing magic tricks. Now I mean that’s pretty bad, when a talented performer has to reach that low. What next, I thought, he’s going to take up juggling? But these hicks absolutely ate it up. They liked the tricks even better than the comic routines; the crowds started getting really huge.

Finally the time came for his debut at the big city—well, the biggest in that part of that particular world, it wouldn’t have made a slum neighborhood here—and off he went, hoping the city audiences would be a little more hip.

He made something of an entrance, too; his twelve roadies did a really great job of getting the word out, making sure there was a big crowd to welcome him when he arrived in town. By the time he did his first show, the turnout was so big they had to hold it out doors on a mountainside, where he gave possibly his greatest performance ever. Still no yucks, but he thought he saw a few of them smiling a little toward the end.

So things were looking up; and so my boy didn’t think anything of it, a few nights later, when a bunch of people showed up, right after dinner, and wanted him to come with them. Some kind of fan thing, he thought, and he said sure, and went along without argument, though some of his entourage tried to talk him out of it.

And when they got where they were going, he still didn’t tumble to what was happening. Not even when they started bringing up the lumber and nails. In fact he gave them a hand. He figured they were getting ready to build a stage for him. There were some cops standing around but he assumed they were just security.

By the time he found out different, it was too late. If I told you what they did to him, you would not sleep tonight and you would have dreams for years, just as I did when I heard about it. So I think I better not go into the details. Enough to say it was a terrible, terrible thing and I’ve never heard of anything quite like it, even on the most barbaric worlds.

The shock and the pain were so great that it was three planetary rotations before he could pull himself together enough to activate his recovery circuits and get out of there. He came back here and told me what had happened—I had naturally been worried sick— and then, despite all my pleas and reassurances, he got on the next available ship back to his homeworld, and as far as I know he never got on stage again. I understand he went into the family construction business. Such a waste, and I can’t help feeling responsible.

But there was one thing I want to tell you about, because it illustrates just what kind of a person he was. Right after he got his body systems working again, he was just about to send the emergency beam-up signal when he thought of something he wanted to do. And as bad as he wanted out of that place—and who can blame him?—and as stiff and sore as he was, he stayed around long enough to put in a final appearance to his original fan club, and do a little farewell routine just for them. Now is that class or what?

You can see why it broke my heart—no, both of them—to see him go.

---

[max-greece]

"If God is not funny, but people are funny, then people could not have made up God, else they would have made Him funny."

Good morning Mr. Logic, I see you've already met Mr. Fail.

Does your computer crack you up in the morning with jokes it made up overnight?

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Jealousy? Don't stop there when there's also wrath, vanity and pride.

That's 4 of the seven deadly sins in the perfect being. We can't say he doesn't suffer from the others too - just that Gluttony, Lust and whatever the fuck the other one is haven't been demonstrated.

Is the other one envy? If it is he's got that one too. That's 5 demonstrated in the Bible - which is the TRVTH apparently.

When was God prideful?
When was God vain?

God is not shown to be gluttonous.
God is not lustful.

He certainly can punish evil, that is just wrath.
Jealousy about the Israelites worshipping devils is for their own good.

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My objection is simple, how do you know the bible is correct empirically? What if Buddha was right, or the Hindu gods, or Islam, or Wiccan, or various other religions.

I will start that proof staring tomorrow.

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[Cato]

The bird blood cure for leprosy is kinda a hoot too.

9 people applauded this post with kudos coming thick and fast.

Such ignorance of the bible is astonishing.

There is no cure for leprosy in Leviticus.
Go back and read it again and cure your ignorance!

The ritual stated was for people who HAD ALREADY BEEN CURED of their leprosy.

Lion IRC, if you have actually read Leviticus 14 and claim this then you are a fucking idiot. How else to you reconcile LV 14-8 'the person to be cleansed'?

I'm sure your god will anoint you for lying on his behalf. Why the almighty creator of all that exists needs you to lie for him/her is beyond me.

Integrity doesn't seem to be high on the Christian value list.

[Ryantology]

The ritual stated was for people who HAD ALREADY BEEN CURED of their leprosy.

I almost gave the initial post kudos because the ritual seemed absurd, but now that you've clarified, it all makes... less sense. Somehow.

[Lion IRC]

9 people applauded this post with kudos coming thick and fast.

Such ignorance of the bible is astonishing.

There is no cure for leprosy in Leviticus.
Go back and read it again and cure your ignorance!

The ritual stated was for people who HAD ALREADY BEEN CURED of their leprosy.

Lion IRC, if you have actually read Leviticus 14 and claim this then you are a fucking idiot. How else to you reconcile LV 14-8 'the person to be cleansed'?

I'm sure your god will anoint you for lying on his behalf. Why the almighty creator of all that exists needs you to lie for him/her is beyond me.

Integrity doesn't seem to be high on the Christian value list.

Well, it looks like we have a serious dispute on a question of fact.
Should be easy to clear up. Right?

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New derail thread split?
Or do you want the humiliation right here?

[Esquilax]

The ritual stated was for people who HAD ALREADY BEEN CURED of their leprosy.

I'm so glad you clarified: I would hate to be employing my bird blood on the wrong person.

[Lion IRC]

The ritual stated was for people who HAD ALREADY BEEN CURED of their leprosy.

I'm so glad you clarified: I would hate to be employing my bird blood on the wrong person.

Don't thank me. It's all there in the bible (which atheists around here brag they know better than Christian forum members.)

[Esquilax]

I did answer this at least twice already.

It's not our fault your answers were fallacious.

If there are multiple believe or damned choices, then the atheist and agnostic is damned if any are true.
So there is no difference in Pascal's wager for atheists and agnostics.

Whoa whoa whoa, that's not true at all! You're presupposing that if a god exists, he or she or it must be one that we already know about, and you have absolutely no reason to think that. Hell, even if it is a god conforming to a current or past religious standard, you can't confirm that anything written about that god is true or accurate!

We have no reason to think that anyone has the correct account of a god or afterlife right now; there's an infinity of possible gods, because we've already detached ourselves from thinking about things in terms of reality, here. What if it's an atheist god, who allows nonbelievers into paradise while punishing believers of all stripes? Or a particularly charitable hindu god who allows atheists into heaven but not christians? What if it's an anti-christian god, or a god who only allows people who can pass an intelligence test into heaven, or a god who won't let you in if you're wearing blue, or a patron god of rectal prolapses? How can you tell?

Pascal's Wager assumes the wagerer's god is the only one on offer, but as I've said in the past, the only thing limiting the number of gods we can posit is our imagination, and you can't exclude any of them, because you've never been dead to confirm. A realistic Pascal's Wager involves infinite risk wagered on infinite odds for everyone, no matter their beliefs.

For the believer of God, a choice must be made. There is only one clear choice. So the believer again has no difference in Pascal's wager.

If you continue spouting this after today, you're either an idiot or a liar.

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Don't thank me. It's all there in the bible (which atheists around here brag they know better than Christian forum members.)

They do. They just don't have any need to spin it to always look good no matter what like you guys do.

[Ryantology]

If you gaze at this beautiful night sky, you can catch a glimpse of the point, high above Lion IRC's head. According to NASA's website, it's visible to the naked eye and happens at least once per night.