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RE: Why can't non-christians talk with god?
October 24, 2013 at 1:28 am
(October 24, 2013 at 1:09 am)Godschild Wrote: I would say we should have a sit down and discuss what you did to earnestly seek God, in my experience with people those who actually sought God found Him, those who played at finding God did not. I mean none of this to reflect on you, just giving you what I've experienced with other people.
GC
Well, this is the problem I have with this kind of logic: since you don't establish criteria for what counts as proper seeking, it becomes very easy for you to then shirk off any unsuccessful attempts as "playing." Since there's no clear method of falsifiability, there's no objective way for you to classify things, and therefore no fairness to your classifications.
I know you believe your god is an active entity, but surely you can see how weighted your reasoning here is, right?
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RE: Why can't non-christians talk with god?
October 24, 2013 at 7:28 am
(October 23, 2013 at 5:02 am)max-greece Wrote: (October 23, 2013 at 4:33 am)hobie Wrote: I have sought God earnestly too, but have little to show for it. My Christian friend says that my life is clouded in sin and that is why God does not bother with me. I am vexed about this.
Amazing how unchristian christian friends can be isn't it.
Its also totally against the teachings - they adore repentant sinners - Jesus is all over them. The concept that you have to be sin free to get to Jesus is just rubbish.
I don't know - sometimes its enough to make you think there's no God at all........oh!
The Biblical Jesus did not turn his back on sinners. He ate and drank with tax collectors and other lowlifes. He even healed a Roman officer's servant. If a bad child goes to his parents, usually they don't forsake him just because he's bad.
My friend tells me I shouldn't lust after women and it's a sin. I want to stop, but how do you turn off being attracted to hot females?
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RE: Why can't non-christians talk with god?
October 24, 2013 at 7:36 am
(October 24, 2013 at 7:28 am)hobie Wrote: My friend tells me I shouldn't lust after women and it's a sin. I want to stop, but how do you turn off being attracted to hot females?
You can't; it's an automatic process in your brain, and another one of those insidious and awful guilt tactics christianity loves so much. You're being made to feel guilty for a function of your flesh, and there's no need for it.
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RE: Why can't non-christians talk with god?
October 24, 2013 at 7:37 am
(This post was last modified: October 24, 2013 at 7:38 am by LastPoet.)
(October 24, 2013 at 7:28 am)hobie Wrote: My friend tells me I shouldn't lust after women and it's a sin. I want to stop, but how do you turn off being attracted to hot females?
Oh, wow... There is no reason to do that. If liking hot women is a 'problem', then I have a huge 'problem', one that I don't want to get rid off.
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RE: Why can't non-christians talk with god?
October 24, 2013 at 8:38 am
(October 24, 2013 at 7:28 am)hobie Wrote: My friend tells me I shouldn't lust after women and it's a sin. I want to stop, but how do you turn off being attracted to hot females?
Turn gay? 
I think that 'thought crime' is a fairly insidious way to keep people in check. No matter how closely you follow god's laws and the attitudes that Jesus told his followers to have, you can never be anything but a lowly sinner. You will falter because you're an imperfect human and therefore you cannot escape the need to be saved by god through Jesus. It's a very effective leash.
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RE: Why can't non-christians talk with god?
October 24, 2013 at 9:12 am
(October 24, 2013 at 1:09 am)Godschild Wrote: I would say we should have a sit down and discuss what you did to earnestly seek God, in my experience with people those who actually sought God found Him, those who played at finding God did not. I mean none of this to reflect on you, just giving you what I've experienced with other people.
How would you determine whether someone actually sought him or "played at finding"? What is your criteria?
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RE: Why can't non-christians talk with god?
October 24, 2013 at 10:16 am
(This post was last modified: October 24, 2013 at 10:17 am by Doubting Thomas.)
(October 24, 2013 at 1:09 am)Godschild Wrote: (October 23, 2013 at 1:22 pm)Faith No More Wrote: Well, then, how would you respond when someone says they sought god earnestly but found nothing?
I would say we should have a sit down and discuss what you did to earnestly seek God
In other words, I'll just claim that no matter what you did, you didn't do it right or didn't do it enough.
(October 24, 2013 at 1:09 am)Godschild Wrote: (October 23, 2013 at 4:44 pm)Doubting Thomas Wrote: I've brought up on these forums about how when I was questioning my faith I asked for God to show me that he was real, and nothing happened. That was one major reason I became an atheist.
Are you positive you didn't already have what you wanted in mind, many have talked themselves right out of a relationship with God. Only asking to see if you might have considered you wanted God not to be real.
And you're an idiot. You think I wanted to give up the religion I was born into and one which my wife still practiced? I never once in my life ever considered atheism as valid until I had serious doubts and the last vestiges of my faith were slipping away. And this was after I had prayed to God to show me that he exists and wants me to worship him. So just stop with the "You just don't want to believe" crap. I think it would be wonderful if there was some all-powerful cosmic being who loves humanity and is watching over us and taking care of us. But I just can't make myself believe that it is so.
Christian apologetics is the art of rolling a dog turd in sugar and selling it as a donut.
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RE: Why can't non-christians talk with god?
October 24, 2013 at 1:10 pm
(This post was last modified: October 24, 2013 at 1:22 pm by Drich.)
(October 23, 2013 at 11:18 am)Tonus Wrote: (October 22, 2013 at 10:25 pm)Drich Wrote: I had a lot of questions too.. Once they were answered then what?
Then you had a lot of answers, I suppose.
I got the answers I needed.
(October 22, 2013 at 11:04 pm)Cinjin Wrote: (October 22, 2013 at 3:49 pm)Drich Wrote: Seriously if you had an audience with the Alpha and Omega of everything, what could you possiably say?
"Hey god, get your shit together. Your creations are starving to death you worthless fucktard."
and if He pointed out He already gave us the resources and the responsiablity two feed those in need what would you say?
After all it's not like the world does not produce enough to feed everyone, we (those with food) dont seemed concerned enough to share. 'we' rather blame God rather than take on the responsiablity for being greedy..
'No God! we want the surplus we have, AND we want you to feed the hungry with something other than what we have, so we can keep our store houses full.'
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RE: Why can't non-christians talk with god?
October 24, 2013 at 1:22 pm
(October 24, 2013 at 1:09 am)Godschild Wrote: I would say we should have a sit down and discuss what you did to earnestly seek God
I'll bet for as many people that claim to have found god, there are almost as many methods they used.
Not to mention all the people of other religions that also claim to have found their god. With no method to discern the difference between your claims and theirs.
Quote:in my experience with people those who actually sought God found Him, those who played at finding God did not. I mean none of this to reflect on you, just giving you what I've experienced with other people.
But here's the rub. No matter how sincere and earnest a person was in seeking God, if they don't find him (or he doesn't find them), you have a built in way discount their efforts.
"Obviously, if you didn't find God, you had to be just playing at finding him. Because if you were earnest and sincere, you would have found him. How do I know? Because you didn't find him."
Circular reasoning at its best.
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: Why can't non-christians talk with god?
October 24, 2013 at 1:30 pm
(This post was last modified: October 24, 2013 at 1:33 pm by Drich.)
(October 23, 2013 at 7:56 pm)Ryantology Wrote: (October 22, 2013 at 10:25 pm)Drich Wrote: What if He sent a messenger for you to speak with?
Then he failed to satisfy the criteria I spent that sentence describing.
So if the President or Queen or whomever runs your country sends a messenger to you to start a dialog that would eventually lead into a face to face, you would not respond?
(October 23, 2013 at 8:09 pm)Brakeman Wrote: (October 22, 2013 at 10:25 pm)Drich Wrote: What if He sent a messenger for you to speak with? What if you quit making excuses for an absent god?
The act of sending a messenger denotes a present and active God.
Again who amongest us is 'special' enough to demand a face to face with the leader of our country without having to go through several other people first?? let alone who is worth to speak with God if we are not first willing to Humble ourselves to Him?
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