Why Should Someone Be an Atheist?

[Whateverist]

Lion leaving is a wonderful birthday present for me. Oh, you thought I was going to say "Christmas gift?" I could give fuck all about that; today is my birthday!

Then .. you must be .. Spock?

I can't speak for anyone else here, but I'm more fond of Jacobsmooth than Savedwheat because, even though they're both Christians, Jacobsmooth is actually intelligent. Trust me, I'd be mocking an idiot atheist if he came in here, too.

No! I must be really smart. I figured out that God is a sham. Doesn't that make me a genius right there?

No, Jacob has it going on. I always knew it was possible to be sane and intelligent and a Christian all at once. There is no in principle reason to doubt it, just lots and lots of counter examples to sift through. We all see examples of people eager to make faith a consolation prize for losing interest in this life. The sad thing is that too many seem to think that arriving at atheism is the greatest insight one could ever hope to have. No god does not imply no meaning. No one should be eager to settle for glib cynicism.

[Jacob(smooth)]

Lion leaving is a wonderful birthday present for me. Oh, you thought I was going to say "Christmas gift?" I could give fuck all about that; today is my birthday!

Then .. you must be .. Spock?

I can't speak for anyone else here, but I'm more fond of Jacobsmooth than Savedwheat because, even though they're both Christians, Jacobsmooth is actually intelligent. Trust me, I'd be mocking an idiot atheist if he came in here, too.

No! I must be really smart. I figured out that God is a sham. Doesn't that make me a genius right there?

No, Jacob has it going on. I always knew it was possible to be sane and intelligent and a Christian all at once. There is no in principle reason to doubt it, just lots and lots of counter examples to sift through. We all see examples of people eager to make faith a consolation prize for losing interest in this life. The sad thing is that too many seem to think that arriving at atheism is the greatest insight one could ever hope to have. No god does not imply no meaning. No one should be eager to settle for glib cynicism.

You're altogether too kind. Although I'm not sure I'm a good example of Christianity or intelligence. Or sanity come to that!

I know quite a few nice, and sane christians. Thing is they're not the ones who tend to go on forums and discuss their faith. Any Christian who seeks out a specifically atheist forum to hang out in is bound to have an agenda. Mine is mainly to enjoy other peoples perspectives, however most people prefer to try to press their own.

As always, the most vocal in a group are not generally representative.

[Angrboda]

Any Christian who seeks out a specifically atheist forum to hang out in is bound to have an agenda. Mine is mainly to enjoy other peoples perspectives, however most people prefer to try to press their own.

As always, the most vocal in a group are not generally representative.

Even the moderates, intelligent or not, harden their hearts when you confront them with the absurdity of their belief. Few have the ability to transcend their own certitude. Most become quite churlish when challenged. True, the sieve of the internet tends to strain out the pathetic and the unworthy and deliver them to the doorstep; yet even the worthy demonstrate themselves lacking in worthwhile attributes when their faith and certitude is challenged. I was posting a bunch of quotes from "Things creationists must hate," quoting the things, like gravity, that they must deny to maintain their fictions. This "moderate" liberal Christian, of considerable intelligence and possessed of good judgement, proceeded to go on the war path against me on account of my "hating on Christians." I believe there are few innocents in this polarity. I am regularly dismissed as a religious person on account of my being reasonable about things. Perhaps that's a self-fulfilling stereotype; those that are reasonable are discounted as being legitimate examples of the faith. Even in conversations I'm participating in here, people will refer to staff member Rayaan as an example of a reasonable religious person, passing over the example that I represent, while I'm effectively standing right there. My suspicions are, that moderates like you and Rayaan, choose your stances in order to fly under the radar, to gain acceptance, while dissembling from your true feelings. Rayaan has already dismembered you for a bunch of double-talk which appeared aimed at gaining you acceptance, all the while not appearing to be true to what you believe. In a nutshell, I think you and Rayaan pander to atheists, because you want to be accepted by them. If this is the case - and I stress the 'if', because I cannot know for certain - if you are just pandering in order to achieve social acceptance, I consider that unethical and lacking in virtue. You I'm not sure about. I'm relatively confident that Rayaan is a schmoozer who presents himself in sheep's clothing intentionally. I suspect he wouldn't know authenticity if it crawled up his leg and bit him in the ass. I do not trust either of you.

"Remain pure all your life, guard your own honour and never transgress the honour of others. Be very tranquil, but when necessary harden your heart."
~ Bhuvaneshwari Devi, mother of Swami Vivekananda

[Jacob(smooth)]

Nor should you, for you do not know us .

The nice thing is, you don't need to either .

[Rayaan]

My suspicions are, that moderates like you and Rayaan, choose your stances in order to fly under the radar, to gain acceptance, while dissembling from your true feelings.

I am afraid that your suspicions about me are not actually correct, apo. I don't know why you have that suspicion, but maybe it's because you don't see me trying to defend my religious views as frequently as other theists do. Is that the reason?

Well, as some members are aware, I've already made many posts where I discussed the teachings, history, and the principles of my religion and why I believe in them. I've debated both Christians and atheists in this forum. And sometimes it takes me a lot of time to write my posts, and on top of that I also do a lot of research before I post something, which takes me even more time to complete them. The thing is that I just don't discuss religion as much as before but that doesn't mean that I'm a schmoozer in a sheep's clothing who is just "pandering to atheists." I don't know what exactly makes you think that, so I'm curious to know.

In my first two years of membership here, I used to jump in and start discussing in almost every thread in the Islamic section. But, as time went on, I became a little more reticent with regards to religious discussions especially because I have already said most of the things I wanted to say about my beliefs. And maybe that's why, nowadays, I come here more for the purpose of just having some fun and excitement during my leisure time. At the same time, I do give serious and constructive responses whenever I feel like it, like I did before in this thread and this thread.

You also don't know anything about what I do outside of this forum, do you? Almost everyday I spend at least an hour or two doing research on various Islamic topics that are of interest to me and I love to listen to Islamic lectures/khutbas on youtube. I feel that both my appreciation and my faith towards my religion increases the more that I learn it. And this forum is not only forum that I participate in. I post in a two Islamic forums as well, one of them which I moderate also.

I don't do any of this just for acceptance only. For me, it's a combination of entertainment, learning, and teaching others at the same time. Thus your suspicions are clearly incorrect.

I'm relatively confident that Rayaan is a schmoozer who presents himself in sheep's clothing intentionally.

Schmoozer? Maybe. In a sheep's clothing? No.

Again, I'm curious to know why you think that. If you don't respond to this post, then I'll take it to mean that maybe you changed your mind about what you think I am. But if you still think that I'm a schmoozer in a sheep's clothing, then you should at least present an argument for that if you're going to make such a claim about me. There is a difference between saying something and backing up what you say. You've merely made a claim about me without giving any proof nor any justification for that.

BTW, here is a link to my post history in the Religion section, in case you want to search for any posts of mine that lend support to your aforementioned assertions.

Good luck.

[Jackalope]

Even in conversations I'm participating in here, people will refer to staff member Rayaan as an example of a reasonable religious person, passing over the example that I represent, while I'm effectively standing right there.

I've been guilty of this - and for that I apologize. Intellectually, I know you're a theist, but with the manner in which you present yourself, I think I often think of you as "one of us". I suppose that could be a limitation of my cultural experience.

[Whateverist]

I'll just leave this here while I think about why I think it is relevant.

e.e. cummings, from New Poems (1938)


(of Ever-Ever Land i speak sweet morons gather roun' who does not dare to stand or sit may take it lying down) down with the human soul and everything else uncanned for everyone carries canopeners in Ever-Ever Land (for Ever-Ever Land is a place that's as simple as simple can be and was built that way on purpose by simple people like we) down with hell and heaven and all the religious fuss infinity pleased our parents one inch looks good to us (and Ever-Ever Land is a place that's measured and safe and known where it's lucky to be unlucky and the hitler lies down with the cohn) down above all with love and everything perverse or which makes some feel more better when all ought to feel less worse (but only sameness is normal in Ever-Ever Land for a bad cigar is a woman but a gland is only a gland)

[Angrboda]

My suspicions are, that moderates like you and Rayaan, choose your stances in order to fly under the radar, to gain acceptance, while dissembling from your true feelings.

I am afraid that your suspicions about me are not actually correct, apo. I don't know why you have that suspicion, but maybe it's because you don't see me trying to defend my religious views as frequently as other theists do. Is that the reason?

Well, as some members are aware, I've already made many posts where I discussed the teachings, history, and the principles of my religion and why I believe in them. I've debated both Christians and atheists in this forum. And sometimes it takes me a lot of time to write my posts, and on top of that I also do a lot of research before I post something, which takes me even more time to complete them. The thing is that I just don't discuss religion as much as before but that doesn't mean that I'm a schmoozer in a sheep's clothing who is just "pandering to atheists." I don't know what exactly makes you think that, so I'm curious to know.

In my first two years of membership here, I used to jump in and start discussing in almost every thread in the Islamic section. But, as time went on, I became a little more reticent with regards to religious discussions especially because I have already said most of the things I wanted to say about my beliefs. And maybe that's why, nowadays, I come here more for the purpose of just having some fun and excitement during my leisure time. At the same time, I do give serious and constructive responses whenever I feel like it, like I did before in this thread and this thread.

Perhaps it's simply a mistaken impression. Our time here has not overlapped, and I have little experience of you, other than to note that, when our paths have crossed, you've struck me as someone who is not a particularly gifted thinker. Perhaps we simply haven't met on appropriate ground. We seem to travel in different circles, and my suspicions such as they are could certainly use more data to found them more securely. All the same, people see my reasoning abilities and presume those are my strength. They are not. My intuition far outstrips my reasoning ability in power and depth. And so, for now, I follow my intuition about you. I'm sure you can appreciate that I have a habit of being right about such things, and of necessity must place my faith in that, rather than in your protestations which, I'm sure are well meaning, but could be every bit as deluded as your nonsensical conspiracy theory views about 9/11. You do not come with bona fides that I can accept at this time.

[Rayaan]

when our paths have crossed, you've struck me as someone who is not a particularly gifted thinker.

You do not come with bona fides that I can accept at this time.

Again, you should be able to remember at least one particular discussion I had (with you or anyone else) that makes you think that. There surely has to be something that you remember.

Do you hold that opinion of me especially because of my 9/11 conspiracy theory views? If that is the reason, then just say it.

[Jacob(smooth)]

I have the answer to the op.

Because otherwise rasetsu will not grace you with his approval .

Do someone else rase . Reading your deconstruction of what you perceive as the shortcomings of those around you is fascinating.