Intelligent Design: Did you design yourself?

[Anomalocaris]

I didn't design myself, but if I did I would design me to be exactly as I am. Because I'm awesome.

The fact that you would think so demonstrates clearly that you are not intelligently designed.

[Heywood]

So you agree that it could be true that most lineages of life in the universe are the products of intellect?

No, I said that in the scenario you painted I see no reason that it couldn't be true - but that I'm not going to swallow it or anything about it until the work is done to show it to be true.

Creationists, IDiots and CDesign Proponentsists need to show their work just like real scientists have to.

I don't know if you realize it yet or not,

This isn't condescending at all.

but atheists need what creationist have been trying to do....that is have an objective means to differentiate between something that is designed and something that is not designed.

But that's exactly what your side hasn't got. You have no means of discerning design in nature from naturally evolved things. Even the artificially created specimens you've been trumpeting here are known to be designed purely because the designers published papers detailing exactly how they did it.

Without this objective means....the atheist position is much weaker than the theists. Let me explain.

Can I have a lollipop after the story if I'm a good boy?

Imagine walking down a beach and finding a watch. You know the watch was designed and produced by an intellect and did not occur naturally. How do you know this? Not because of the precision and complexity of the device(this is where my argument differs from Paley's). You know it was designed and produced by an intellect and not nature because in your experience you've observed that watches are designed and produced by intellects, and you've never seen them occur naturally. You know this watch you found was the product of an intellect even though you aren't privy to the details of it creation. This is how we currently differentiate the designed from the not designed.

Exactly so. Which is why we can't make the same claims for a tree, a bird, or a blade of grass.

What about lineages of life? Well if you only observe lineages of life coming into existence by being designed and produced by intellects, and never observe them coming into existence naturally, you are in a good position to claim that a lineage of life whose creation details you are not privy too was designed and produced by an intellect. A theists is in a strong position to claim that all lineages of biological life are designed and produced by intellects, because the rule we use to determined what is designed and produced by an intellect and what isn't suggests that biological life is like a watch....something exclusively designed and produced by intellects.

And yet again I'm saying that you can claim anything you like and it doesn't amount to a mosquito's fart unless you test the claim against the real world. Do your home work first, then we can have something to talk about instead of warmed-over Paley.

This warmed over Paley only requires 2 things.
1) The observations of intellects creating lineages of life.
2) Never observing lineages of life coming into existence naturally.

As long as those two conditions exist, A theist will be on a stronger footing when he/she claims our lineage is the product of intelligent design then the atheist who claims our lineage is the product of unintelligent natural processes.

And before you claim where is the test.....where is the test made by atheists that shows our lineage is the product of unintelligent natural processes? If we theists have to do tests to support our claims....you atheists need to do them too.

[The Grand Nudger]

You've never seen a blade of grass that wasn't manufactured by an intellect, or that came into being naturally.........like, honest to god fairies in the garden stuff?

[Cyberman]

What, atheists need to disprove your claims?

[Anomalocaris]

Why? Because certain kinds of signals are always observed to be the products of intellect and never observed to be the products of nature.

Nothing is ever observed to be the product of nature until it is observed to be a product of nature for the first time.

[CapnAwesome]

I didn't design myself, but if I did I would design me to be exactly as I am. Because I'm awesome.

The fact that you would think so demonstrates clearly that you are not intelligently designed.

It's an objective truth that I am awesome. Plus it's in my name so it has to be true. Also I don't think anyone should be taking this thread seriously.

[Heywood]

You've never seen a blade of grass that wasn't manufactured by an intellect, or that came into being naturally.........like, honest to god fairies in the garden stuff?

Blades of grass do not need an intellect to come into existence. But a blade of grass is not a lineage of life....and we are talking about lineages of life.....not blades of grass. Your point is off topic and moot.

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Why? Because certain kinds of signals are always observed to be the products of intellect and never observed to be the products of nature.

Nothing is ever observed to be the product of nature until it is observed to be a product of nature for the first time.

I agree, our lineage of life cannot be definitively said to be a product of nature because it hasn't been observed as such. It can only be speculated as such. And it looks as if we will have good reason to dismiss that speculation.

[The Grand Nudger]

I'm glad we agree on this......so..you have observed life coming into existence without the need of intellect. Good.....for a minute I thought I might be having a conversation with a nutball...

I'm not sure why a blade of grass doesn't qualify. It belongs to a lineage...there was a "first blade" ....it wasn't too long ago.

I'm pretty sure I'm on target.

[Heywood]

What, atheists need to disprove your claims?

No....you need to prove your claim that our lineage of life occurred naturally if our experience and observations suggests that lineages of life only come into existence via intelligent design.

If all I ever see is lineages of life coming into existence via intelligent design....why should I believe your claim that our lineage is different?

[Cyberman]

I never made that claim, sir.