Intelligent Design: Did you design yourself?

[The Grand Nudger]

Mycoplasma Labratorium is different. It was claimed to be the first instance of synthetic life. I don't agree with that claim, but the achievement and others has convinced me that intellects are capable of creating independent lineages of life. Its just a matter of time before more than one lineage of life exists on this planet. Most if not all those lineages will be the product of intelligent design.

It is synthetic, insofar as they apply the term...but they took all the materials from existing "lineages" of life. Whether or not your prophesy comes true in the future has what effect on the past? I wouldn't dispute that intellect can induce speciation...I wouldn't be surprised if intellect was capable of creating life "from the ground up". I'm not going to hold my breath, of course.

I'm surprised that you needed convincing that intellect can induce speciation. Any sufficient cause can. Those sufficient causes are, well....just about everything. Whether it's "intellect", chance, or NS - they all achieve the effect with the same tools, in the same fundamental manner. IOW, it's the tools that count, not whethger or not the initiating factor has intellect, is random, or is directed (in any other way).

[Mister Agenda]

You agree that at some point, on earth, most lineages of life will be the result of intelligent design. If this is true of the earth, and it appears this will soon be the case, Why couldn't it be true of the universe itself?

Sure. And it could be true of our universe itself, if we start creating universes (it doesn't seem to be impossible) we'll probably inititate a good many of them, our universe could be similar...it's just that I don't have a good reason yet to think that it is.

I've already shown the second part is true earlier in the thread.

I think you're causing a lot of confusion by refering to artificial genomes as 'intelligently designed' when the Discovery Institute has done a bang-up job of tying the term to organisms believed to have evolved naturally.

[Heywood]

Lineage is a term used in evolutionary science. Lineage of life isn't something I made up.

Lineage, yes.... lineage of life, no!

An evolutionary lineage is a sequence of species, that form a line of descent, each new species the direct result of speciation from an immediate ancestral species.[1][2] Lineages are subsets of the evolutionary tree of life. Lineages are often determined by the techniques of molecular systematics.

Anyway, the requirement for new such lineages during our lifetime only shows, once more, how you utterly misunderstand what evolution of animals by natural selection is.... and your dismissal of new lineages in micro-organisms, just shows how uninterested you are to acknowledge actual evidence.
Bacteria don't breed through sex, so discerning one species from another is... tricky... when they are sufficiently close. How can you say that MRSA is the same species as some other bacteria that exists in our normal environment?

Lineage of life is a term I learned in an astrobiology course I took....I did not make this up. Lineages branch off from each others(when they do they are sub lineages), but if you follow all lineages back, they all lead to a single Universal Common Ancestor just as all branches on a tree have a path to the trunk. I suggest you bone up on the Universal Common Ancestor, and Tree of Life.

[The Grand Nudger]

So, for the record..are you proposing a designer that created the first spark..or one that just keeps stepping in every time a new "lineage" crops up?

[Heywood]

Mycoplasma Labratorium is different. It was claimed to be the first instance of synthetic life. I don't agree with that claim, but the achievement and others has convinced me that intellects are capable of creating independent lineages of life. Its just a matter of time before more than one lineage of life exists on this planet. Most if not all those lineages will be the product of intelligent design.

It is synthetic, insofar as they apply the term...but they took all the materials from existing "lineages" of life. Whether or not your prophesy comes true in the future has what effect on the past? I wouldn't dispute that intellect can induce speciation...I wouldn't be surprised if intellect was capable of creating life "from the ground up". I'm not going to hold my breath, of course.

I'm surprised that you needed convincing that intellect can induce speciation. Any sufficient cause can. Those sufficient causes are, well....just about everything. Whether it's "intellect", chance, or NS - they all achieve the effect with the same tools, in the same fundamental manner. IOW, it's the tools that count, not whethger or not the initiating factor has intellect, is random, or is directed (in any other way).

The used cell parts. The genes were manufactured. The did not design the genes entirely as they basically copied a gene of another species. The did add watermarks and leave some DNA sequences out. I don't call it a new lineage but rather a sub lineage. Its more of a cobbled together Frankenstein result then synthetic life from scratch(although there was some design and manufacture work).

New lineages are coming I am sure. I am positive intellects can create lineages of life. I see no reason yet to believe lineages of life can occur naturally.

[Mister Agenda]

So you reject all hypotheses of natural abiogenesis as impossilble, even given billions of earth-like planets and hundreds of millions of years of opportunities?

[The Grand Nudger]

New "lineages" have already come -please just call them species from now on man...lulz. Your entire life is built upon them, I assume you eat?

[Heywood]

So, for the record..are you proposing a designer that created the first spark..or one that just keeps stepping in every time a new "lineage" crops up?

I am proposing that it will soon be a human experience that lineages of life are the products of intelligent design. And without ever observing a lineage coming into existence naturally, people will have a strong rationale to believe that our lineage of life is the product of intelligent design. If we apply our rule for determining if something is designed or not, that rule will suggest our lineage is a designed thing.

The atheists will be the ones needing to justify the claim that our lineage is the results of natural processes. Yes Stimbo....this is shifting of the burden of proof....but it is not me doing the shifting. What is shifting the burden of proof is the circumstances we now find ourselves in.

It is this change in circumstances that is putting the atheistic position on a weaker footing. Maybe it is time you re-think your positions.

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New "lineages" have already come -please just call them species from now on man...lulz. Your entire life is built upon them, I assume you eat?

Sub lineages come into existences naturally. Completely new and independent lineages is another thing entirely.

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So you reject all hypotheses of natural abiogenesis as impossilble, even given billions of earth-like planets and hundreds of millions of years of opportunities?

I don't reject them, but until abiogenesis is observed, there is no reason to think it exists. Intelligent design exists...this is a fact.

[Rampant.A.I.]

What, atheists need to disprove your claims?

No....you need to prove your claim that our lineage of life occurred naturally if our experience and observations suggests that lineages of life only come into existence via intelligent design.

If all I ever see is lineages of life coming into existence via intelligent design....why should I believe your claim that our lineage is different?

No one has advanced that claim. We have entire scientific fields dedicated to the study of the empirical evidence showing life evolved naturally, medicine also relies on evolution, and here you are claiming "nope, it was designed by a deity" without a shred of empirical evidence.

[The Grand Nudger]

I am proposing that it will soon be a human experience that lineages of life are the products of intelligent design.

Prophecy.....meh.

And without ever observing a lineage coming into existence naturally, people will have a strong rationale to believe that our lineage of life is the product of intelligent design.

This is the part that I don't get.....we've watched many more speciation events that didn't require intellect.....that's kind of what makes myco so special after all....

If we apply our rule for determining if something is designed or not, that rule will suggest our lineage is a designed thing.

Actually, what we've observed would suggest a human origin of a specific species. Unless you're positing that human beings are the designer of all the others..your own reasoning has nothing to say on the matter otherwise.

The atheists will be the ones needing to justify the claim that our lineage is the results of natural processes.

Good thing it's gone well beyond justification. While we may not be able to answer the question of where -all life- came from./..we have the question of where human life came from nailed to the wall.

Sub lineages come into existences naturally. Completely new and independent lineages is another thing entirely.

Explain the difference. Isn't on mans lineage just anothers sub-lineage, and so on and so forth ad-infinitum?