North Korean policy?

[CristW]

Should the world open trade with North Korea to force "liberalization" of the political structure within North Korea? Should there be an incentive to transform North Korea?

---

I think trading with North Korea would help transform North Korea into Chinese-like model were free market could operate and help the people of North Korea. I am probably looking at this from a moral standpoint? The United States and the world, should by-pass the North Korean leadership and help the people. I think that free trade would eventually transform the political landscape in North Korea, for the better.

[Anomalocaris]

We can try, but it won't succeed. Kim has organized a couple of special economic zones to try out Chinese style economic reform and encourage trade and investment from china. In each case the zone was shut down because Kim grew concerned that economic liberalization brought with it too much that was not under Kim's direct control, and reform experiment was terminated rather than allowed to spread. Things have no reason to be different if the trading partner is US or South Korea rather then china.

Kim family is in charge, and Kim family has excellent reason to believe if they relinquish any aspecof of total control, then the loss of authority will spread, and eventually Kim will be overthrown, and millions will bring them to account, and the Kim clan will be exterminated in bloody retribution just as the Kims have exterminated so many other clans to attain and hold on to power.

[Rev. Rye]

And, seriously, given how poorly North Korea is run, it's pretty likely North Korea will eventually collapse underneath its own weight. It's really only a matter of time.

[vorlon13]

We need more CGI of Little Kim doing tentacle porn

[Nine]

It could work but with the risk of just having a better funded, well fed and more productive rogue nation. I think it's a situation where all options are shitty.

[Fidel_Castronaut]

And, seriously, given how poorly North Korea is run, it's pretty likely North Korea will eventually collapse underneath its own weight. It's really only a matter of time.

I agree with this. However my only concern is how many people die with the regime. The people of N.Korea have a shit deal regardless of what happens to their country, and I don't think free trade is going to prevent that.

Consider that one of Kim's uncle's was recently shot for (apparently) seeking to undermine his leadership. Can't tell if that's true or not, but assuming it is, seems like there's at least an equal number of people in his circle that are afraid enough of his power to rat out would be dissenters rather than join in his downfall.

But yeah, no outcome seems to result in a happy ending aside a quick assassination and a bloodless revolution. Fat chance of that happening though. The vacuum would be massive.

Let's face it. Militarily, N. Korea is pretty harmless. Aside the odd shelling or sinking of S. Korean boats (detestable in there own right, of course), the biggest loser of N. Korea's current state is N. Korea itself, or rather, its people/

[Anomalocaris]

Let's face it. Militarily, N. Korea is pretty harmless. Aside the odd shelling or sinking of S. Korean boats (detestable in there own right, of course), the biggest loser of N. Korea's current state is N. Korea itself, or rather, its people/

If Kim regime is toppled from outside, the foreign power might have sufficient cunning pragmatism (shown only in casual form, not in substance by the US in the lead up to 2003 Iraq invasion, and not shown by the west at all in Libya in 2011) to offer Kim and family ahead of time an iron clad escape to a comfortable life of immunity from retribution for past crimes. This may seem unfair, but it is wisdom as it eases more important transitions, allows basic administrative machine to continue to function, and probably avoids humanitarian crisis during transition and possibly a bloody final stand.

The concern is if Kim regime is ever put in its death throes by an internal uprising, it might not have the option to escape and might chose to unlease its nuclear weapons as its final throw of dice rather than go quietly down to family extinction.

[Mister Agenda]

The Kim regime depends on controlling the people's access to information. It can't survive too much trade. Let Kim be the one to restrict trade, not us.

[Fidel_Castronaut]

Let's face it. Militarily, N. Korea is pretty harmless. Aside the odd shelling or sinking of S. Korean boats (detestable in there own right, of course), the biggest loser of N. Korea's current state is N. Korea itself, or rather, its people/

If Kim regime is toppled from outside, the foreign power might have sufficient cunning pragmatism (shown only in casual form, not in substance by the US in the lead up to 2003 Iraq invasion, and not shown by the west at all in Libya in 2011) to offer Kim and family ahead of time an iron clad escape to a comfortable life of immunity from retribution for past crimes. This may seem unfair, but it is wisdom as it eases more important transitions, allows basic administrative machine to continue to function, and probably avoids humanitarian crisis during transition and possibly a bloody final stand.

The concern is if Kim regime is ever put in its death throes by an internal uprising, it might not have the option to escape and might chose to unlease its nuclear weapons as its final throw of dice rather than go quietly down to family extinction.

Certainly a logical suggestion given the alternative scenario.

My only contention is whether such a deal would be palatable. There would be a lot of people calling for Kim's head for decades afterwards. I doubt even china would be willing to give them safe harbour considering the almost certain backlash that would occur perhaps even in their own state. After all, satisfaction with the Chinese stance towards NK in china appears to be fragmented and even perhaps mostly negative.

[Minimalist]

Given our success rate with "regime change" we should just stay the fuck away.