In need of a more humbleness. Why condemning the Theistic position makes no sense.

[ShaMan]

[Celestine]

Just because an idea is different from your own does not mean those who support that idea are delusional. Reflect rather on your own delusions than that of others, so that you might become better as a person.

What are my delusions wise one? I never said an idea that is different qualifies as a delusion; an idea that contradicts the known facts of reality, however, is.

How is a view of a theist contradicting to reality if they are also evolutionists? Once a long time ago I tried disproving this 'delusional' concept of a god and I found my efforts to be futile, there was never a bigger waste of time in my entire life. If the existence of a god cannot be disproved then it does not contradict reality, and if such a god did exist its power, as theists say, would be limitless.

As for your delusions? How should I know? You are better to say that than me for you know yourself better than I! To say that we have none though is arrogant and almost entirely likely to be wrong.

I'm clearly on James Redfeild's ignore list, and apparently MK has lost interest. I leave these proceedings to you, my fellow competent apologists of reason in the face of EXTREME ignorance. Good evening all

You are not on my ignore list, but it hasn't struck me yet that you are trying to engage me in a conversation.

[Zidneya]

Just because an idea is different from your own does not mean those who support that idea are delusional. Reflect rather on your own delusions than that of others, so that you might become better as a person.

To a visitor who described himself as a seeker after Truth the Master said. “If what you seek is Truth, there is one thing you must have above all else.”
“I know. An overwhelming passion for it.”
“No. An unremitting readiness to admit you may be wrong.”

---

So tell me Celestine does this sound like a humble open to reflection statement?
This is why you will never be able to have these people view their opinions without their own bias or bigotry getting in the way. In essence what I am saying is your effort is futile.

Or is it because you feel frustrated that we don't see things the way you do and there for you gave up?
I'm no expert but if you feel like your statement towards atheists are futile MAYBE IT'S TIME FOR A DIFFERENT APPROACH!


You don't even have a month here and you're already stereotyping us are you freaking kidding me!

[Mudhammam]

How is a view of a theist contradicting to reality if they are also evolutionists? Once a long time ago I tried disproving this 'delusional' concept of a god and I found my efforts to be futile, there was never a bigger waste of time in my entire life. If the existence of a god cannot be disproved then it does not contradict reality, and if such a god did exist its power, as theists say, would be limitless.

Who said anything about evolution? By theist I take you to mean a deity with functions analogous to a human mind, except one that is infinite! And intercedes when you pray to it/him/her! And is benevolent! (Reconcile that with the evolutionary process for us while you're pretending to be all-wise, will ya?) Well, no you can't disprove anthropomorphic gods in the same way you can't disprove imps, elves, unicorns, or faeries either, but I think it's fair to say that any person who invests a large portion of their time and energy into such mythologies--taking them to be a real aspect of the world and believing their actions can influence the pleasure or displeasure of such creatures--is victim to delusion.

As for your delusions? How should I know? You are better to say that than me for you know yourself better than I! To say that we have none though is arrogant and almost entirely likely to be wrong.

Well, this is the second time you have equated ideas or views I hold to religious dogmas so perhaps you'd be better off to put your foot in your mouth. Admitting that I may hold some incorrect views because I am largely ignorant of certain topics is not quite the same as being faithfully committed to an untenable or unjustified belief.

[ShaMan]

You are not on my ignore list, but it hasn't struck me yet that you are trying to engage me in a conversation.

Do my beliefs (which you may only presume) make you view me as antagonistic toward a belief in god(s)?

[Celestine]

Just because an idea is different from your own does not mean those who support that idea are delusional. Reflect rather on your own delusions than that of others, so that you might become better as a person.

So tell me Celestine does this sound like a humble open to reflection statement?
This is why you will never be able to have these people view their opinions without their own bias or bigotry getting in the way. In essence what I am saying is your effort is futile.

Or is it because you feel frustrated that we don't see things the way you do and there for you gave up?
I'm no expert but if you feel like your statement towards atheists are futile MAYBE IT'S TIME FOR A DIFFERENT APPROACH!


You don't even have a month here and you're already stereotyping us are you freaking kidding me!

Is the alchemist frustrated when he tries to turn lead into gold repeatedly to no end? Or the geologist who knows the limitations of his abilities?

Here my words mean little, you have most of the forum with similar views as you with regard to religion to my one solitary view. Were we to meet on the streets without your companions, you would be then in a different and more palatable state of mind. But here in the nest of resentment and bitterness such words are like light trying to pierce the dense thicket that covers the nest.

[The Grand Nudger]

So, your go to explanation for my stance was clearly the notion that I held some undefined grudge against religion (not even sure how that would be possible...btw). Failing that, radio silence? The whole "grudge against religion" bit, Celestine, is just something that holymen tell their flocks in order to dodge difficult criticism, and..let's face it, as part of a job security strategy. Have I ever failed to lay out why I put forward the positions that I do in our conversations? No, I have not. So why then, do I find myself being approached from such a ludicrous (and pious) angle? If you've been reading, you -know- why I say the things that I do. I'm a wordy motherfucker - I leave very little open to wonder or interpretation when it comes to my stance on religion.

I have nothing to hold a grudge for, no source of resentment, no event or goings on to be bitter about. I've led a fortunate life. I don't have the deconversion sob story that you are desperately reaching for. I've never been a believer, and I wasn't forced to attend services by my family (had you told me 20 years ago that there were actually people in the world that believed all of this religious nonsense I would have flat out called you a liar - even the damned priests I knew were atheists, my naive POV was that it was an oddity of history). Hell, I never even got diddled by a priest - but maybe I just wasn't pretty enough? Boo-hoo, woe is me, it's all religions fault - and all that jazz.....

[ShaMan]

Here my words mean little, you have most of the forum with similar views as you with regard to religion to my one solitary view. Were we to meet on the streets without your companions, you would be then in a different and more palatable state of mind. But here in the nest of resentment and bitterness such words are like light trying to pierce the dense thicket that covers the nest.

It is because you've presupposed this that you are disabled in this discussion.

[Zidneya]

Do my beliefs (which you may only presume) make you view me as antagonistic toward a belief in god(s)?

Okay now I'm curious. Who's in your ignore list?

[Mudhammam]

Here my words mean little, you have most of the forum with similar views as you with regard to religion to my one solitary view. Were we to meet on the streets without your companions, you would be then in a different and more palatable state of mind. But here in the nest of resentment and bitterness such words are like light trying to pierce the dense thicket that covers the nest.

It is because you've presupposed this that you are disabled in this discussion.

Celestine is sooo different and unique. We should grant his username its own special color so that everyone can know just how different he is.