Another "responsible" gun owner.

[Minimalist]

Everything is about money. It sure as fuck isn't about "freedom."

[FatAndFaithless]

I..don't think anyone has denied it being about money, Brian.

[The Grand Nudger]

Bullcrap,

No, just like theists arguments and 1% arguments, it is about "I like the way things are and any criticism to such is wrong".

There is no historonics on my part. This is about money. It is the elephant in the room. It is obstructing problem solving.

I'm not saying that -any- criticism is wrong, just that I don't think we can lay responsibility for what happened on the gun manufacturer in this case, or any case of negligent discharge. I don't like the way things are, but I don't see how pointing the finger at the guy who makes the widget is going to change what people do with the widget when the guy making it has done everything that they can -short of closing up shop- to minimize the risk of human idiocy.

I'm willing to entertain any idea that anyone has about what sorts of mechanisms we might add to prevent an accidental discharge (and clearly so are manufacturers...they advertise this stuff...that theirs is better than the other guys and therefore safer). As a consumer and a parent it's pretty high on my list of considerations. Gun manufacturers aggressively market their safety features. I don't know if they do it "for the right reasons" but they do it so that I don't buy a competitors product at the very least. I've never personally bought a rifle (I hate pistols) for defense...I just don't think that this is a very effective way to defend myself against a home intruder (I don't want to shoot through a drywall partition and hit my babies) - and I would say that any consumer ought to make an informed decision....that's not really the responsibility of a manufacturer. Their responsibility (if we wanted to call it that) is to provide a quality product that is compliant with standards and law.

[Brian37]

Good, then stop defending the makers or the NRA, they are the main cause of gun death of both legal and illegal guns. I do not want to force them out of existence. I simply want them to be MORE responsible about how many they make, the types they make, and care about were they end up. They have done a horrible job of problem solving. Just like big oil did not want to face that led was really causing a problem with the environment and health.

Don't make excuses for them.

[FatAndFaithless]

I don't think anyone here is "defending" the NRA at all, in fact I find them very distasteful. And I guess you could say we're "defending" the manufacturers because we feel they are meeting the reasonable requirements for safety in their products (above the legally requried safety, even). Like Rhyhtm pointed out, the safety of firearms is a huge selling point for competitors, and I'm not sure what more you want them to do.

Perhaps provide us with an example of what you want the manufacturers to do?

[pocaracas]

I think the US is in need of an overhaul on some of the laws from the old west...
You guys have way too many guns owned by civilians... and now I'm starting to get about one gun-related death news per week, from the US.
Sure, it's still less than the average car accident-related death... but do we want to make that comparison?

[*Deidre*]

Toyotas are not designed solely to kill people....

This x 1000

I heave a dreaded sigh when 'cars can kill people too' comes into these discussions...

[FatAndFaithless]

If you're talking about gun ownership/purchasing laws, then I agree Poc, some areas of the US are laughably anarchic when it comes to firearms. But in terms of safety in production, I don't know how one can hold a company responsible if a user blatantly disregards and disobeys all of their safety information (of which there is many).

[Minimalist]

Hollywood mythology, Poc. The "wild west" was no where near as wild as modern Chicago.

The Gun Fight at the OK Corral was about attempts to enforce gun control measures by the Earp Brothers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunfight_at....K._Corral

Relevant law in Tombstone

To reduce crime in Tombstone, on April 19, 1881, the Tombstone's city council passed ordinance #9 requiring anyone carrying a bowie knife, dirk, pistol or rifle[29][30] to deposit their weapons at a livery or saloon soon after entering town. The ordinance was the legal basis for City Marshal Virgil Earp's decision to confront the Cowboys that resulted in the shoot out

[Jaysyn]

I am talking about CLIMATE and how marketing affects the way we think about everything in life.

You keep bringing up marketing, I've never seen an ad for a firearm outside of a firearm related magazine that you'd have to pay for to have access to. Where exactly do you feel that the firearm manufacturers are marketing their wares inappropriately?

I accuse you of histrionics because you've never done anything even remotely close to offering a solution to the problem you are constantly complaining about. You just think that we should all agree with you, blame the manufacturers & completely ignore the fact that humans have free-will.