Atheists who become Christians

[dyresand]

Evidence will never come any sane person should note that if any of the bible was true which it is not.
why is it that people who read and look into the bible or go to church for answers it never comes because such answers probably and most likely
do not exist and we only have nature and something we should cherish and take care of.

[Mystic]

I suspect Atheists who become Christians see holy beauty in the Bible and attributed it to holy spirit. I think it's possible to get this relative experience and can relate to it as that's what I use to get reading the Quran.

[dyresand]

I suspect Atheists who become Christians see holy beauty in the Bible and attributed it to holy spirit. I think it's possible to get this relative experience and can relate to it as that's what I use to get reading the Quran.

they were truly never atheists or well they were faux atheists. then again people are people and even atheists under really tough conditions could turn theists I.E. loosing loved ones etc

[The Valkyrie]

I suspect Atheists who become Christians see holy beauty in the Bible and attributed it to holy spirit. I think it's possible to get this relative experience and can relate to it as that's what I use to get reading the Quran.

they were truly never atheists or well they were faux atheists. then again people are people and even atheists under really tough conditions could turn theists I.E. loosing loved ones etc

I don't like playing the no true Scotsman fallacy, even when it comes to former atheists. I think there are many true Christians who were once atheists (I don't believe the claims of the likes of Kirk Cameron and his ilk, since he spouts bullshit about what atheists really think and they're obviously not qualified to talk for us).

THeir reasons for believing? I don't know. Personal tragedy? Something they've seen that they can't explain/attribute to nature?

Everyone has different reasons.

Everyone goes through confusing times. Everyone goes through tragedy. Some people embrace friends and family. Some embrace religion.

[watchamadoodle]

In fact, believiing in Christianity requires you to ignore the historical evidence indicating fundamental changes to Judaism and Christianity over the centuries - not at all like God was inspiring those religions.

Such as?

You mentioned the pride of Lucifer a few posts back, so let's take that example:

The verse that spawned the character Lucifer is from Isaiah. ("Lucifer" in the KJV was a mistranslation of "morning star".)

How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations! You said in your heart, 'I will ascend to the heavens; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of Mount Zaphon. I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.' But you are brought down to the realm of the dead, to the depths of the pit. Those who see you stare at you, they ponder your fate: 'Is this the man who shook the earth and made kingdoms tremble, the man who made the world a wilderness, who overthrew its cities and would not let his captives go home?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer

Later the wikipedia article says:

In ancient Canaanite mythology, the morning star is pictured as a god, Attar, who attempted to occupy the throne of Ba'al and, finding he was unable to do so, descended and ruled the underworld. The original myth may have been about a lesser god Helel trying to dethrone the Canaanite high god El who lived on a mountain to the north. Hermann Gunkel's reconstruction of the myth told of a mighty warrior called Hêlal, whose ambition it was to ascend higher than all the other stellar divinities, but who had to descend to the depths; it thus portrayed as a battle the process by which the bright morning star fails to reach the highest point in the sky before being faded out by the rising sun.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer

As further evidence Mount Zaphon is the holy mountain of Baal Hadad not the holy mountain of Yahweh.

According to Ugaritic texts it was the sacred mountain of the storm god Baal (Baal-Hadad in ancient Canaanite mythology), where his palace was erected of blue lapis and silver and where his lightning overcame the nearby sea (Yam) and Death (Mot) himself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Aqraa

So this part of Isaiah where the story of Lucifer originated is comparing the king of Babylon to the god of the morning star who according to Canaanite myth tried to occupy the throne of Baal Hadad at Mount Zaphon. This shows how Judaism evolved gradually from Canaanite religions.

EDIT: Even if you accept that you experienced something supernatural, it would be more reasonable to suspect that you were simply hearing a message from some non-Christian entity in the language of your religious beliefs. For example, in the Martian Chronicles, a martian appeared to be Jesus to a priest, because that was the language the priest would understand.

Even if this person was not Christian He supported and pushed me towards Christianity.

Maybe all religions are false, but those false religions help people interact with the real God (if it exists). So the real God might encourage you to follow Christianity, but it might encourage somebody else to follow Hinduism.

[Drich]

You are making a lot of assumptions about my level of faith. If I had been lukewarm, I wouldn't have been on my face on the floor.

indeed. That is why God answered your prayer and broke you from your beliefs of 40 years (so you would not stagnate in your beliefs.)

Some Christians believe that a real or true Christian can't lose their faith. Perhaps you are one of those. If that is true, you aren't able to accept that someone with faith equal to yours could walk away from Christianity because it means that you could be part of a lie.

not what I said at all. I said you exceedingly strong Faith prompted God to send the wind and rains per the parable of the wise and foolish builders, to test your house/faith. As a result your strong faith collapsed and died, because God would not support the broken image you were worshiping. Giving you the oppertunity to rebuild on the Rock outlined in the bible rather than the sand of empty religious doctrine.

How do I know you built on sand? Because of what you believe to be true of God and Christianity is not reflected in the bible, but is indeed taught in many mainstream Christian religions.

I can't be ignored by something that doesn't exist. Not certain how long I was supposed to keep knocking. At some point, you have to accept that no one is going to answer

if God sent the rains and has you start over, then you are to knock through this trial.

A more accurate compareson would be to ask you would you love the son of an Enemy (ISIS type) who tried to kill you or worse yet your son? Repeatedly? What if he just visited hardship and torment to you or your son day in and day out?

This is actually not a good comparison, at all. Repeatedly, the bible uses verses to describe god a parental figure.

For His Followers is God described as a Father figure, not For Everyone.

So, my relationship with my son is closer in similarity to the bible's concept of god/human relationship then enemy of mine who torments my family's relationship to me.

Indeed. What I have said in my compareson was in this senerio you were God. Your son represents His followers. The enemy's son represents all non believers.
Because you said you could not imagine a God who would abandon or hate his children. My comment and comparison was meant to provide a biblical contrast in saying not everyone here is a Child of God. Only believers are considered the children of God. As such everyone else belongs to God's 'enemy.'

So then the question becomes, would you mix your family in with those who wish you and them Ill?

Can you provide some biblical backing for your version of god's relationship to humans? Sometimes I suspect that you don't read your bible.

a different view=\= I don't read my bible.
What it means is I dont have to look at my bible the way you looked at yours.
Aside from the parables I mentioned we have other NT examples:
Gal 3:26-27 You were all baptized into Christ, and so you were all clothed with Christ. This shows that you are all children of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

Eph 1:5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.

John 1
12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:

These passages speak to exactly what I was saying about your kid and the kids of your enemy

John 8:
37 “I know that you are Abraham’s descendants, but you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you. 38 I speak what I have seen with My Father, and you do what you have seen with[l] your father.”

39 They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.”

Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would do the works of Abraham. 40 But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Abraham did not do this. 41 You do the deeds of your father.”

Then they said to Him, “We were not born of fornication; we have one Father—God.”

42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me. 43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. 45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me? 47 He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”

Then there is:
Rom 8:14
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se...rsion=NKJV

Rom 9:8
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se...rsion=NKJV

1john 3:8-10
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se...rsion=NKJV

Again the problem your having is that everyone has it wrong except you. Look at what your assumption was when I approached with with the truth of the bible that conflicted with what you thought was true. Rather than question yourself, you questioned me.
Now if you need further examples I think there are 4 or 5 more, but I think the case is well documented.

Now before you go and try and find a passage or two that says we are God's children I would ask you to first consider to whom the speaker is speaking to. Believers or nonbelievers.

Jesus said that those who don't feed the hungry, clothe the naked or visit those in prison do not belong to him and he won't know them. That is a far cry from the god from your version of god as described in this post.

again look to the passage in john 8 I posted.

No. Why would I move my family to a gated community?

Drich, I have read several of your posts. You don't seem to have read your own holy book.

to protect your family from those outside those gates.

---

In the orginal greek the word for scripture is 'graphe' it means written word. We know Paul wrote this to Timmothy a deciple of Paul.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexi...1124&t=KJV

Wrong. Do your homework, bud. Most scholars now believe the evidence of authorship points to an unknown writer belonging to a Pauline community. Even so, think about your rationale: Human X claims to be divine. Therefore, X is divine. Like I keep repeating, you pace in circles elevating men to the status of God to justify their words as relating to God's authority over man.

So 'scripture' would include anything Paul exposed Timothy to.

Paul did not use any of the other books you mentioned to teach Timothy.

What books did he expose him to? Please refer me to his given list. Oh yeah, that's right, he doesn't give one.

God confirmed the validity of the bible through what has happened since I turned my life over to Him. In that in the bible God makes specific promises. He full filled those promises to me.

I looked at my orginal thread again, and do not see where I said "my brain exploded."

So, to answer the OP, you're basically saying that only atheists who haven't sufficiently thought about the arguments are liable to convert.

I'm inclined to agree since this is precisely what you and your ilk have repeatedly demonstrated.

How do we know who wrote 2 Timothy?



Hmmmm how could we possibly know who wrote 2 Timothy???

Maybe if we had some clue or some signature of some kind....

2Tim 1
Greeting
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ[a] by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,

2 To Timothy, a beloved son:

Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.

Oh, but this would not be enough for you and a wiki page?


Sorry sport if you want to challenge what is in the book itself your going to have to bring more than your personal self doubt about this epistles authorship.

---

Such as?

You mentioned the pride of Lucifer a few posts back, so let's take that example:

The verse that spawned the character Lucifer is from Isaiah. ("Lucifer" in the KJV was a mistranslation of "morning star".)

How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations! You said in your heart, 'I will ascend to the heavens; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of Mount Zaphon. I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.' But you are brought down to the realm of the dead, to the depths of the pit. Those who see you stare at you, they ponder your fate: 'Is this the man who shook the earth and made kingdoms tremble, the man who made the world a wilderness, who overthrew its cities and would not let his captives go home?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer

Later the wikipedia article says:

In ancient Canaanite mythology, the morning star is pictured as a god, Attar, who attempted to occupy the throne of Ba'al and, finding he was unable to do so, descended and ruled the underworld. The original myth may have been about a lesser god Helel trying to dethrone the Canaanite high god El who lived on a mountain to the north. Hermann Gunkel's reconstruction of the myth told of a mighty warrior called Hêlal, whose ambition it was to ascend higher than all the other stellar divinities, but who had to descend to the depths; it thus portrayed as a battle the process by which the bright morning star fails to reach the highest point in the sky before being faded out by the rising sun.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer

As further evidence Mount Zaphon is the holy mountain of Baal Hadad not the holy mountain of Yahweh.

According to Ugaritic texts it was the sacred mountain of the storm god Baal (Baal-Hadad in ancient Canaanite mythology), where his palace was erected of blue lapis and silver and where his lightning overcame the nearby sea (Yam) and Death (Mot) himself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Aqraa

So this part of Isaiah where the story of Lucifer originated is comparing the king of Babylon to the god of the morning star who according to Canaanite myth tried to occupy the throne of Baal Hadad at Mount Zaphon. This shows how Judaism evolved gradually from Canaanite religions.

Even if this person was not Christian He supported and pushed me towards Christianity.

Maybe all religions are false, but those false religions help people interact with the real God (if it exists). So the real God might encourage you to follow Christianity, but it might encourage somebody else to follow Hinduism.

Awesome try!

If you are getting hung up on the word/name lucifer, substitute it for 'satan.' Is from the hebrew word "Satan" which means the supernatural oppsition to God.

(You can use this word interchangably.)

[rexbeccarox]

I'm just... I mean... ew.

[dyresand]

I'm just... I mean... ew.

[Nope]

not what I said at all. I said you exceedingly strong Faith prompted God to send the wind and rains per the parable of the wise and foolish builders, to test your house/faith. As a result your strong faith collapsed and died, because God would not support the broken image you were worshiping. Giving you the oppertunity to rebuild on the Rock outlined in the bible rather than the sand of empty religious doctrine.

So, let me get this straight.My faith was strong but because I don't agree with your interpretation of the bible, which you believe just happens to be the only one, god risked me losing my faith by making me doubt. Again, you have only proved your god is an asshole.

Why do you worship this view of god, Drich? You decided to follow the version of god that is apparently the most cruel among the different Christian versions of god.

Luckily, I followed my doubts

For His Followers is God described as a Father figure, not For Everyone.

I forgot. You are a follower of John Calvin so you don't believe in an omnibenevolent deity.


I looked through the passages that you copied and pasted. They say nothing about god being an enemy to everyone who doesn't believe in him.

Again the problem your having is that everyone has it wrong except you.

The only person that I have said is wrong on this thread is you. So, unless you and I live alone in the universe, I obviously don't think that everyone is wrong but me.

Look at what your assumption was when I approached with with the truth of the bible that conflicted with what you thought was true. Rather than question yourself, you questioned me.

Aren't you a super special snowflake

No. Why would I move my family to a gated community?

to protect your family from those outside those gates.

---

Where do you live that the world is such a dangerous place, Drich

[dyresand]

not what I said at all. I said you exceedingly strong Faith prompted God to send the wind and rains per the parable of the wise and foolish builders, to test your house/faith. As a result your strong faith collapsed and died, because God would not support the broken image you were worshiping. Giving you the oppertunity to rebuild on the Rock outlined in the bible rather than the sand of empty religious doctrine.

So, let me get this straight.My faith was strong but because I don't agree with your interpretation of the bible, which you believe just happens to be the only one, god risked me losing my faith by making me doubt. Again, you have only proved your god is an asshole.

Why do you worship this view of god, Drich? You decided to follow the version of god that is apparently the most cruel among the different Christian versions of god.

Luckily, I followed my doubts

For His Followers is God described as a Father figure, not For Everyone.

I forgot. You are a follower of John Calvin so you don't believe in an omnibenevolent deity.


I looked through the passages that you copied and pasted. They say nothing about god being an enemy to everyone who doesn't believe in him.

Again the problem your having is that everyone has it wrong except you. L

The only person that I have said is wrong on this thread is you. So, unless you and I live alone in the universe, I obviously don't think that everyone is wrong but me.

]ook at what your assumption was when I approached with with the truth of the bible that conflicted with what you thought was true. Rather than question yourself, you questioned me.

Aren't you a super special snowflake

No. Why would I move my family to a gated community?

to protect your family from those outside those gates.

---

Where do you live that the world is such a dangerous place, Drich

Probably a communism.