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Atheists who become Christians
#91
RE: Atheists who become Christians
Christians are typically morons. Exhibit A:
(December 21, 2014 at 10:38 pm)Drich Wrote: ROFLOLROFLOLROFLOLROFLOL

How do we know who wrote 2 Timothy?

Thinking

Hmmmm how could we possibly know who wrote 2 Timothy???

Maybe if we had some clue or some signature of some kind....

2Tim 1
Greeting
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ[a] by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,

2 To Timothy, a beloved son:

Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.

Oh, but this would not be enough for you and a wiki page?
ROFLOL

Sorry sport if you want to challenge what is in the book itself your going to have to bring more than your personal self doubt about this epistles authorship.
Hey, here's a new word for you:

"PSEUDEPIGRAPHY"

Now, get ready to adjust your eyes, this may sting a bit. I give you...

FACTS:
Quote:1 Timothy is one of the three epistles known collectively as the pastorals (1 Timothy, 2 Timothy, and Titus). They were not included in Marcion's canon of ten epistles assembled c. 140 CE. Against Wallace, there is no certain quotation of these epistles before Irenaeus c. 170 CE.
Norman Perrin summarises four reasons that have lead critical scholarship to regard the pastorals as inauthentic (The New Testament: An Introduction, pp. 264-5):
Vocabulary. While statistics are not always as meaningful as they may seem, of 848 words (excluding proper names) found in the Pastorals, 306 are not in the remainder of the Pauline corpus, even including the deutero-Pauline 2 Thessalonians, Colossians, and Ephesians. Of these 306 words, 175 do not occur elsewhere in the New Testament, while 211 are part of the general vocabulary of Christian writers of the second century. Indeed, the vocabulary of the Pastorals is closer to that of popular Hellenistic philosophy than it is to the vocabulary of Paul or the deutero-Pauline letters. Furthermore, the Pastorals use Pauline words ina non-Pauline sense: dikaios in Paul means "righteous" and here means "upright"; pistis, "faith," has become "the body of Christian faith"; and so on.
Literary style. Paul writes a characteristically dynamic Greek, with dramatic arguments, emotional outbursts, and the introduction of real or imaginary opponents and partners in dialogue. The Pastorals are in a quiet meditative style, far more characteristic of Hebrews or 1 Peter, or even of literary Hellenistic Greek in general, than of the Corinthian correspondence or of Romans, to say nothing of Galatians.
The situation of the apostle implied in the letters. Paul's situation as envisaged in the Pastorals can in no way be fitted into any reconstruction of Paul's life and work as we know it from the other letters or can deduce it from the Acts of the Apostles. If Paul wrote these letters, then he must have been released from his first Roman imprisonment and have traveled in the West. But such meager tradition as we have seems to be more a deduction of what must have happened from his plans as detailed in Romans than a reflection of known historical reality.
The letters as reflecting the characteristics of emergent Catholocism. The arguments presented above are forceful, but a last consideration is overwhelming, namely that, together with 2 Peter, the Pastorals are of all the texts in the New Testament the most distinctive representatives of the emphases of emergent Catholocism. The apostle Paul could no more have written the Pastorals than the apostle Peter could have written 2 Peter.
The arguments that establish the inauthenticity of the pastoral epistles are expounded by Kummel in his Introduction to the New Testament, pp. 371-84. In addition to providing more detail to the arguments stated by Perrin, Kummel adds a few more considerations.
Concerning the struggle against the false teachers, Kummel writes (op. cit., pp. 379-80):
. . . in addition to the predictions concerning the appearance of the false teachers 'in the last days' (I Tim 4:1 ff; II Tim 3:1 ff, 13; 4:3 f), there are references to the present activity of the false teachers and instructions about combating them (I Tim 1:3 ff, 19 f; 6:20 f; II Tim 2:16 ff; 3:8; Tit 1:10 ff; 3:9 ff), so that there is no perceptible distinction between the teaching of the predicted false teachers and the present ones. But since nowhere in the Pastorals is there to be found any consciousness of living 'in the last days,' in the prediction of the End-time which evidently describes present phenomena it is clear that we are dealing only with a traditional literary motif (vaticinium ex eventu) which is now being employed by 'Paul.' Still more striking, however, is the matter of how the false teachers are opposed. Completely otherwise than in Col, the viewpoints of the false teachers are not contradicted by being confronted with the preaching about Christ, but they are countered simply by reference to the traditional teaching, from which the false teachers have erred and which is to be held fast (I Tim 4:1; 6:20; II Tim 1:14; 2:2 Tit 3:10 f). The lack of any substantive debate cannot be explained on the ground that Paul did not regard the prattle of false teachers as being worth contradicting and assumed that Timothy and Titus themselves knew what should be said in refutation of the false teachers. In that case there would be no necessity to make those addressed aware of the dangers of the false teaching in detail. This lack is much more readily explained by the fact that Paul is not writing these letters.
In the pastorals, there is an emphasis on the preservation of tradition, and the community situation seems to be that of the sub-apostolic age. The pastorals evince a level of church organization that most likely would not have existed in the lifetime of Paul. The requirements particular to bishops and deacons are spelled out clearly (I Tim 3:1-13). Kummel writes (op. cit., pp. 381-2):
The actual task of Timothy and Titus consists rather in preserving the correct teaching which they received from Paul and passing it on to their pupils (I Tim 1:11; 6:20; II Tim 1:14; 2:2). Though there is no chain of succession constructed from Paul via his apostolic disciples to the holders of office in the congregations - not even in II Tim 2:2, the chain of tradition is strongly stressed, whose beginning lies with the apostle (II Tim 2:2, 8). The presupposition of this central role of the tradition is a community which, in contrast to Paul's expectation of a near end of the age, is already making provision for the time after the death of the bearers of tradition appointed by the apostolic disciples (II Tim 2:1 f). Although Paul certainly did not know of the task of preserving the tradition through ordanted presbyters (πρεσβυτεροσ is not meant in Paul as an indication of an office), the ecclesiastical office of the widows (I Tim 5:3 ff) whose essential task is continual prayer in connection with sexual abstinence is totally foreign to Paul. Though it is questionable whether the Pastorals presuppose a distinction between clergy and laity, still there is no longer any indication of active cooperation and responsibility on the part of the community.
And Kummel goes on to amass further evidence that the theological expressions used are incompatible with Pauline authorship (op. cit., pp. 382-84). All these arguments establish that the pastoral epistles are second century products.
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com
He who loves God cannot endeavour that God should love him in return - Baruch Spinoza
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#92
RE: Atheists who become Christians
Quote:Where do you live that the world is such a dangerous place, Drich

Quote:Probably a communism.

Damn those communist for frightening poor Drich.
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#93
RE: Atheists who become Christians
(December 22, 2014 at 12:22 am)Nope Wrote: Where do you live that the world is such a dangerous place, Drich

Quote:Probably a communism.

Damn those communist for frightening poor Drich.


Damn the communists for frighting Dirch. Shock Quick we must save him
eventually.
Atheism is a non-prophet organization join today. 


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#94
RE: Atheists who become Christians
I would like to thank the moderator for her patience with my mistakes with using quotes.
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#95
RE: Atheists who become Christians
Hey hey hey now. Kirk Cameron used to be an atheist. And he invented the beloved children's character, CrocoDuck!
How will we know, when the morning comes, we are still human? - 2D

Don't worry, my friend.  If this be the end, then so shall it be.
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#96
RE: Atheists who become Christians
(December 21, 2014 at 3:50 pm)Beccs Wrote: We have the claims. Now, once more, we need to wait for the evidence.

[Image: kGfoq.gif]

(December 21, 2014 at 8:51 pm)Drich Wrote: I looked at my orginal thread again, and do not see where I said "my brain exploded."

No doubt a dud charge.

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#97
RE: Atheists who become Christians
(December 21, 2014 at 1:40 pm)Nope Wrote:
(December 21, 2014 at 1:35 pm)Drich Wrote: What makes you think an Omni benevolent God runs the planet? The bible does not make this claim. Infact the bible says the opposite. That God turned it the planet over to us, and we by the bounds of sin belong to satan. So by default satan is who pulls the strings in most places.

Satan is the god of the planet?

Can you back up with scripture that Satan by default is running the planet because I have never read that in the bible.

How about Ephesians 2:1-3 CEV) = "1 In the past you were dead because you sinned and fought against God. 2 You followed the ways of this world and obeyed the devil. He rules the world, and his spirit has power over everyone who doesn’t obey God. 3 Once we were also ruled by the selfish desires of our bodies and minds. We had made God angry, and we were going to be punished like everyone else."
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#98
RE: Atheists who become Christians
Drich: Wait, God isn't running the planet anymore? He cut and run because we ate an apple or something?

Why the fuck are you worshipping him then? Hoping to suck up enough to him so he'll come back? Also I think you made this up.

That is the one of the weirdest "versions" of Christianity I have heard. Strange how he won't run the planet, but he drops in to help people find their car keys.

And if this is what he "revealed" to you, you should have kept looking for another religion.
Feel free to send me a private message.
Please visit my website here! It's got lots of information about atheism/theism and support for new atheists.

Index of useful threads and discussions
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#99
RE: Atheists who become Christians
Rob, I think Wyrd is explaining, not proselytizing.

Not that your arrows aren't sharp -- they're just aimed wrong.

(December 21, 2014 at 10:38 pm)Drich Wrote: How do we know who wrote 2 Timothy?

Thinking

Hmmmm how could we possibly know who wrote 2 Timothy???

Maybe if we had some clue or some signature of some kind....

2Tim 1
Greeting
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ[a] by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,

2 To Timothy, a beloved son:

Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.

Oh, but this would not be enough for you and a wiki page?
ROFLOL

Sorry sport if you want to challenge what is in the book itself your going to have to bring more than your personal self doubt about this epistles authorship.

You're right -- no one would ever dream of forging document, perhaps in order to skim ducats from a gullible audience in an era where there was no Internet fact-checking.

I mean, who would ever believe that a follower of Christ the Savior might lie?

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RE: Atheists who become Christians
Sure, I was aiming at Drich not wyrd, sorry I didn't make that very clear Smile

Did anyone believe me when I talked on the phone to God? If not, are you saying someone can lie when giving accounts?

Mine was also a first hand account, which makes it more credible than the second hand ones in the New Testament. Why are you so quick to dismiss me but believe what some nobbos said 2000 years ago?

Are you subjecting my testament to some sort of scrutiny? Why do that all of a sudden?
Feel free to send me a private message.
Please visit my website here! It's got lots of information about atheism/theism and support for new atheists.

Index of useful threads and discussions
Index of my best videos
Quickstart guide to the forum
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