Posts: 1164
Threads: 7
Joined: January 1, 2014
Reputation:
23
RE: Atheists: have you ever had a religious experience and what did you make of it?
January 21, 2015 at 11:01 pm
Apologies to the drug users out there but;
I believe that my conscious mind is the product of uncounted generations of natural selection. It has sculpted my anatomy and physiology to provide me with an unbelievably complex series of chemical reactions self assembled in to neural networks whose end product is my unclouded mind. Whacking that system with an external chemical clearly powerful enough to seriously alter its operation and believing that it improves the system is akin to believing that hitting a Rolex with a pick-hammer will help it tell time.
Subjectively, you may believe you are doing better work, psychedelics are famous for this. But only in a few instances (ritalin studying or epo/blood doping for racers or androgens for adding muscle) are the results actually improved performance in some limited way. And those interventions pretty universally come with deleterious side effects.
So how, exactly, does God know that She's NOT a brain in a vat? 
Posts: 23918
Threads: 300
Joined: June 25, 2011
Reputation:
151
RE: Atheists: have you ever had a religious experience and what did you make of it?
January 22, 2015 at 12:51 am
(January 21, 2015 at 11:01 pm)JuliaL Wrote: Subjectively, you may believe you are doing better work, psychedelics are famous for this. But only in a few instances (ritalin studying or epo/blood doping for racers or androgens for adding muscle) are the results actually improved performance in some limited way. And those interventions pretty universally come with deleterious side effects.
I mostly agree with you but I do recall a night on a hallucinogen going out with a friend at night and throwing frisbee. I'm okay normally but that night I was catching it behind my back every time in poor light. Normally that wasn't something I could do very often. But that night every grab was sure. Makes me wonder.
My own theory is that there are two factors involved in performing any task, one's talent and one's access to that talent. I think drugs can improve access sometimes.
Posts: 18510
Threads: 129
Joined: January 19, 2014
Reputation:
91
RE: Atheists: have you ever had a religious experience and what did you make of it?
January 22, 2015 at 2:37 am
(This post was last modified: January 22, 2015 at 2:39 am by Alex K.)
The possibly most prolific mathematician of all time, Paul Erdös, famously ran on amphetamines. He once lost a bet and had to go a month without, and afterwards explained that it was a month mathematics will never get back. He also died on the blackboard though.
But this is not so much inspiration through mind-altering substances, and rather simply performance-enhancing doping.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
Posts: 106
Threads: 7
Joined: December 26, 2014
Reputation:
3
RE: Atheists: have you ever had a religious experience and what did you make of it?
January 22, 2015 at 2:55 am
(This post was last modified: January 22, 2015 at 2:57 am by tantric.)
Naturalism, the idea that 'nature is best', is just another superstition. There's no reason to assume that normal brain functioning can't be improved, by training or drugs. PsychToday article. There was also an article in Nature or Science (I can't tell them apart). Personally, I made great use of Modafinil - in practicing for and taking the GRE. My lousy SAT score, pre-smart drugs, was a 1350. My GRE, which should be similar, was a nice 1540 (both out of 1600), which netted me a two year full ride in grad school, with a stipend, even. So, yeah, don't knock it til you try it.
Psychedelics enhance creativity - there's anecdotal evidence that the structure of DNA was first conceived under the influence of LSD, not to mention loads of great art. It's also a fundamental part of the human religious/spiritual experience, not that that'll matter much here.
My book, a setting for fantasy role playing games based on Bantu mythology: Ubantu
Posts: 1114
Threads: 28
Joined: June 13, 2011
Reputation:
18
RE: Atheists: have you ever had a religious experience and what did you make of it?
January 22, 2015 at 3:22 am
(This post was last modified: January 22, 2015 at 3:26 am by Pizza.)
(January 21, 2015 at 8:15 am)watchamadoodle Wrote: Thanks, I have never tried a guided a meditation, but I have heard it works for many people. I was mostly into doing Loving Kindness and mindfulness meditation but stopped. I didn't think it made sense to try loving everyone and mindfulness mediation seem to be (I can't think of the right word) poisoning the well by telling me over and over again that there is no self.
Quote:I think a person should be able to meditate without the Buddhist assumptions. I know what you mean though. Buddhism is part of the culture and language of meditation.
I'm mostly confused by how Buddhists will play up the psychotherapy/self-help angle when Buddhist isn't psychotherapy or self-help.
(January 21, 2015 at 9:31 pm)NuclearJaguar Wrote: Well I was raised Catholic if that's what you mean
I was questioning it even as a kid though. Was wondering why they were reading us this fantasy-genre book, and talking about it like it was something that was supposed to be real.
I mean don't insult my intelligence. I might have been 5, but I knew if you attempt to walk on water, you fall in. Pfft. I wonder how many children have thoughts like this? I remember have some doubts as a young Christian but learned to ignore them. That's likely what keeps people in the faith.
(January 22, 2015 at 2:55 am)tantric Wrote: Naturalism, the idea that 'nature is best', is just another superstition. There's no reason to assume that normal brain functioning can't be improved, by training or drugs. This is probably me being nitpicky but:
Naturalism is "the philosophical belief that everything arises from natural properties and causes, and supernatural or spiritual explanations are excluded or discounted.
It is very important not to mistake hemlock for parsley, but to believe or not believe in God is not important at all. - Denis Diderot
We are the United States of Amnesia, we learn nothing because we remember nothing. - Gore Vidal
Posts: 29107
Threads: 218
Joined: August 9, 2014
Reputation:
155
RE: Atheists: have you ever had a religious experience and what did you make of it?
January 22, 2015 at 3:42 am
(This post was last modified: January 22, 2015 at 3:47 am by robvalue.)
Sure, drugs can alter the mind. But I would never recommend anyone to actively experiment with powerful drugs as some way of enhancing themselves scientifically. I don't think the possible benefits are worth the risk.
(I'm not trying to criticise anyone who has already taken such drugs, it's totally up to them. I'm just saying what my advice would be to any random person.)
Posts: 106
Threads: 7
Joined: December 26, 2014
Reputation:
3
RE: Atheists: have you ever had a religious experience and what did you make of it?
January 22, 2015 at 4:13 am
I came back to add some notes of caution to my previous post. The first is about 'enhancing' your life with drugs, specifically meth. There's a pattern of abuse I call 'amphetamine logic' (thanks Sisters of Mercy) in which people become convinced that using meth lets them get more done and thus 'pays for itself'. Trust me when I say this is delusion and very dangerous. Meth, coke, opiates, alcohol, benzos, GHB - all these in one way or another release dopamine in your brain and they're all addictive. As such, you never win, though I understand that some folks self-medicate with them, and that in some cases that's the only option, but it's still a bad one. While I believe it is possible to use some mind-altering drugs productively, the *worst* possible use is to make yourself feel good.
Of all the 'smart drugs', only modafinil is reasonably safe and not by chance it's almost completely non-euphoric.
My book, a setting for fantasy role playing games based on Bantu mythology: Ubantu
Posts: 9147
Threads: 83
Joined: May 22, 2013
Reputation:
46
RE: Atheists: have you ever had a religious experience and what did you make of it?
January 22, 2015 at 4:36 am
(January 21, 2015 at 11:01 pm)JuliaL Wrote: Apologies to the drug users out there but;
I believe that my conscious mind is the product of uncounted generations of natural selection. It has sculpted my anatomy and physiology to provide me with an unbelievably complex series of chemical reactions self assembled in to neural networks whose end product is my unclouded mind. Whacking that system with an external chemical clearly powerful enough to seriously alter its operation and believing that it improves the system is akin to believing that hitting a Rolex with a pick-hammer will help it tell time.
Subjectively, you may believe you are doing better work, psychedelics are famous for this. But only in a few instances (ritalin studying or epo/blood doping for racers or androgens for adding muscle) are the results actually improved performance in some limited way. And those interventions pretty universally come with deleterious side effects. Ummm. . . I'm gonna go out on a limb and say much, if not most, of the best art (including music) that has ever been created has been done so either under the influence, or at least by someone who is often under the influence.
Posts: 18510
Threads: 129
Joined: January 19, 2014
Reputation:
91
RE: Atheists: have you ever had a religious experience and what did you make of it?
January 22, 2015 at 4:50 am
(This post was last modified: January 22, 2015 at 4:56 am by Alex K.)
(January 22, 2015 at 4:36 am)bennyboy Wrote: Ummm. . . I'm gonna go out on a limb and say much, if not most, of the best art (including music) that has ever been created has been done so either under the influence, or at least by someone who is often under the influence.
Possible, though some surely were ascetics.
In the times of J.S. Bach, drinking coffee was apparently controversial, as discussed in his coffee cantata. Apparently he himself annihilated a lot of the stuff.
Quote:The cantata's libretto (written by Christian Friedrich Henrici, known as Picander), features lines like "If I couldn't, three times a day, be allowed to drink my little cup of coffee, in my anguish I will turn into a shriveled-up roast goat".[1]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YC5KpmK6oOs
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
Posts: 106
Threads: 7
Joined: December 26, 2014
Reputation:
3
RE: Atheists: have you ever had a religious experience and what did you make of it?
January 22, 2015 at 6:18 am
True about art and drugs, but a wise man once said: psychedelics are like getting a phone call, once you get the message, you need to hang up the phone.
"I did all of this in blind faith because the first time I took MDMA was my own." -The Memoirs of Eleusis
My book, a setting for fantasy role playing games based on Bantu mythology: Ubantu
|
