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RE: Atheists: have you ever had a religious experience and what did you make of it?
January 21, 2015 at 11:01 pm
Apologies to the drug users out there but;
I believe that my conscious mind is the product of uncounted generations of natural selection. It has sculpted my anatomy and physiology to provide me with an unbelievably complex series of chemical reactions self assembled in to neural networks whose end product is my unclouded mind. Whacking that system with an external chemical clearly powerful enough to seriously alter its operation and believing that it improves the system is akin to believing that hitting a Rolex with a pick-hammer will help it tell time.
Subjectively, you may believe you are doing better work, psychedelics are famous for this. But only in a few instances (ritalin studying or epo/blood doping for racers or androgens for adding muscle) are the results actually improved performance in some limited way. And those interventions pretty universally come with deleterious side effects.
So how, exactly, does God know that She's NOT a brain in a vat? 
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RE: Atheists: have you ever had a religious experience and what did you make of it?
January 22, 2015 at 12:51 am
(January 21, 2015 at 11:01 pm)JuliaL Wrote: Subjectively, you may believe you are doing better work, psychedelics are famous for this. But only in a few instances (ritalin studying or epo/blood doping for racers or androgens for adding muscle) are the results actually improved performance in some limited way. And those interventions pretty universally come with deleterious side effects.
I mostly agree with you but I do recall a night on a hallucinogen going out with a friend at night and throwing frisbee. I'm okay normally but that night I was catching it behind my back every time in poor light. Normally that wasn't something I could do very often. But that night every grab was sure. Makes me wonder.
My own theory is that there are two factors involved in performing any task, one's talent and one's access to that talent. I think drugs can improve access sometimes.
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RE: Atheists: have you ever had a religious experience and what did you make of it?
January 22, 2015 at 2:37 am
(This post was last modified: January 22, 2015 at 2:39 am by Alex K.)
The possibly most prolific mathematician of all time, Paul Erdös, famously ran on amphetamines. He once lost a bet and had to go a month without, and afterwards explained that it was a month mathematics will never get back. He also died on the blackboard though.
But this is not so much inspiration through mind-altering substances, and rather simply performance-enhancing doping.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
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RE: Atheists: have you ever had a religious experience and what did you make of it?
January 22, 2015 at 2:55 am
(This post was last modified: January 22, 2015 at 2:57 am by tantric.)
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RE: Atheists: have you ever had a religious experience and what did you make of it?
January 22, 2015 at 3:22 am
(This post was last modified: January 22, 2015 at 3:26 am by Pizza.)
It is very important not to mistake hemlock for parsley, but to believe or not believe in God is not important at all. - Denis Diderot
We are the United States of Amnesia, we learn nothing because we remember nothing. - Gore Vidal
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RE: Atheists: have you ever had a religious experience and what did you make of it?
January 22, 2015 at 3:42 am
(This post was last modified: January 22, 2015 at 3:47 am by robvalue.)
Sure, drugs can alter the mind. But I would never recommend anyone to actively experiment with powerful drugs as some way of enhancing themselves scientifically. I don't think the possible benefits are worth the risk.
(I'm not trying to criticise anyone who has already taken such drugs, it's totally up to them. I'm just saying what my advice would be to any random person.)
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RE: Atheists: have you ever had a religious experience and what did you make of it?
January 22, 2015 at 4:13 am
I came back to add some notes of caution to my previous post. The first is about 'enhancing' your life with drugs, specifically meth. There's a pattern of abuse I call 'amphetamine logic' (thanks Sisters of Mercy) in which people become convinced that using meth lets them get more done and thus 'pays for itself'. Trust me when I say this is delusion and very dangerous. Meth, coke, opiates, alcohol, benzos, GHB - all these in one way or another release dopamine in your brain and they're all addictive. As such, you never win, though I understand that some folks self-medicate with them, and that in some cases that's the only option, but it's still a bad one. While I believe it is possible to use some mind-altering drugs productively, the *worst* possible use is to make yourself feel good.
Of all the 'smart drugs', only modafinil is reasonably safe and not by chance it's almost completely non-euphoric.
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RE: Atheists: have you ever had a religious experience and what did you make of it?
January 22, 2015 at 4:36 am
(January 21, 2015 at 11:01 pm)JuliaL Wrote: Apologies to the drug users out there but;
I believe that my conscious mind is the product of uncounted generations of natural selection. It has sculpted my anatomy and physiology to provide me with an unbelievably complex series of chemical reactions self assembled in to neural networks whose end product is my unclouded mind. Whacking that system with an external chemical clearly powerful enough to seriously alter its operation and believing that it improves the system is akin to believing that hitting a Rolex with a pick-hammer will help it tell time.
Subjectively, you may believe you are doing better work, psychedelics are famous for this. But only in a few instances (ritalin studying or epo/blood doping for racers or androgens for adding muscle) are the results actually improved performance in some limited way. And those interventions pretty universally come with deleterious side effects. Ummm. . . I'm gonna go out on a limb and say much, if not most, of the best art (including music) that has ever been created has been done so either under the influence, or at least by someone who is often under the influence.
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RE: Atheists: have you ever had a religious experience and what did you make of it?
January 22, 2015 at 4:50 am
(This post was last modified: January 22, 2015 at 4:56 am by Alex K.)
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
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RE: Atheists: have you ever had a religious experience and what did you make of it?
January 22, 2015 at 6:18 am
True about art and drugs, but a wise man once said: psychedelics are like getting a phone call, once you get the message, you need to hang up the phone.
"I did all of this in blind faith because the first time I took MDMA was my own." -The Memoirs of Eleusis
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