Belief in The Devil in 2015

[downbeatplumb]

God can apparently do anything, except stop satan wrecking his plans.

It is side splitting to me that a significant number of those in god's actual presence decided he was a twat and walked out on him. Kind of ruins the idea that if we would "just see" we would become christians. No, I'd just be hating a real being rather than a fictional character.

And god is all good except when he commits genocide.

And god is all knowing but people can hide from him behind bushes and he has to send in angel scouts to find a good man.

And all powerful but can be defeated by iron chariots.

I could go on, but critiquing this tiresome fairy tale is like shooting a large fish in a tea cup.

[KevinM1]

I could not agree more. To me it explains why some people will not turn away from their atheism despite being intelligent enough to know how irrational it is.

[dyresand]

I could not agree more. To me it explains why some people will not turn away from their atheism despite being intelligent enough to know how irrational it is.

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[Aroura]

Aurora




The world in a), I think would be forever. It would be a possible favor and not a bad favor, it would be an ok one, and one a lot of people without knowledge of the higher stations with God would love because they don't like suffering.
But God has a special type of grace that he wants us to give, and wants us to reward us with a special relationship with him that is everlasting. 
If you see God as the most worthy goal, and that higher stations inward stations, and their favour, then that grace outweighs the suffering in the system of the world in it is and outweighs the grace in world in a).

I guess from your point of view, since, there is no station in the unseen of beauty and glory, and higher ranks, and all sort of fruits of two kinds from majesty and beauty, then you don't see good deeds as really worth it. 

But I think honor is a greater reward then just happiness, specially since a greater happiness and greater peace would result to the the good people.

I think it being instruments of compassion in temporarily world in need of it, with reward of a world of just peace in the next, is a great favor.

Bolded part mine.

No, I see good deeds as VERY worth it, or did you not actually read my post?  Good deeds are extremely important when we see the world as it really is. THIS world has suffering, and that is why it is imerative we do good things now, not wait for some imaginary sky daddy to make it all right later.

If this world is temporary, and god wants us to suffer as so many beleivers think, then it is YOU who must think good deeds are pretty pointless, since god will reward or punish people appropriately after they die.

I don't do nice things just to make myself happy, I do them because I'm not a giant asshole that needs an imaginary reason to do them. 

There is much beauty in the world, much awe to be felt, and good things to do.  You have fallen into the stupid trap of thinking atheist are all nihilists, or something.

I can and do good things without the need of a god standing over me with a carrot and a whip.

[Mystic]

No, I see good deeds as VERY worth it, or did you not actually read my post? 

I meant if good deeds were worth the world of trial and suffering as opposed to a perfect world where we wouldn't have opportunity to these good deeds. You specifically said they aren't worth it if we can have a world without problems and without the good deeds opportunities.

[Aroura]

No, I see good deeds as VERY worth it, or did you not actually read my post? 

I meant if good deeds were worth the world of trial and suffering as opposed to a perfect world where we wouldn't have opportunity to these good deeds. You specifically said they aren't worth it if we can have a world without problems and without the good deeds opportunities.

No...that's not what I said at all.  You offered 2 choices, a perfect world or the one we live in.  In a perfect world, they would not be necessary as in the flawed one we live in.
Good deeds are WORTH doing now because we need them.  In a perfect world, they would not be NECESSARY, which is NOT THE SAME as not worth doing. 

But if the option (and you set up this 2 sided scenario, not me) is good deeds and great suffering, or no good deeds needed because there is no suffering, why in the fuck would you selfishly pick being able to do good deeds while others suffer just so you can do the good deeds?  That's just sick.

I realize English isn't your fist language, so I'm not trying to be mean, but please stop putting words in my mouth.

[RobbyPants]

So we know there are still a large number of people in the world who believe in God and the influence he exerts on the universe, but how many still believe in Satan being the overseer of evil? He seems to be mentioned far less than God in discussions that I've seen, and I've barely seen his name come up even in discussions about Hell

Really, I only ever see him coming up in discussions when

• Christians don't like the way some facet of society is acting.
  
• To try and squash the doubts of believers.
  

Satan is a good scapegoat to blame the failings of a religion that doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

And perhaps more interestingly, what do you make of him as a being in and of itself? What do you think are his reasons, his motivations, what makes him tick? Aside from him being Evil Incarnate, of course, I mean what do you think he does day to day, kind of thing.

My wife is Christian, and she doesn't believe Satan exists. She doesn't believe hell exists, either. I suppose one of these days, when I get a chance, I could ask my dad how he feels about Satan. Actually, while I'm thinking about it, I'll post the question on a Facebook group I'm in. I might find something useful to report.

[KevinM1]

Wait, Lucifer isn't supposed to be the hero of the tale?

[professor]

One of the greatest tricks Lucifer has done is obscure himself from view while staying in view to those foolish enough to follow him
(this includes his occult and his outward religions).

Lots of Christians have become the last church- the Laodicean church, disbelieving lots of what is written.
Who will be spit out when Jesus comes for His Bride (a composite bride of both female and male),
 to the Laodiceans, Jesus will say, "I would that you were either hot or cold".
Lukewarm doesn't cut it for God anymore than we like it.
The devil loves nonresistance to him and the last group (so ignorant of him and his ways) is his cup of tea.
Why spoil a good thing by sticking one's face where it might be recognized?
It is just like with you guys- overplaying his hand would expose the spiritual side of life and questions would be asked.

[DeistPaladin]

Side Note:
This thread reminded me of AronRa's interview with a leader of an "Satanist Church". Apparently, such things really do exist. 

Aron thought, as I did, that this guy was just an atheist engaging, in my opinion, in category confusion. I knew there was a "church" of Levey-style "Satanism" where they don't actually believe in Satan. They just use this equally contrived character of Christianity as a symbol of rebellion. This is why I call it "category confusion". If you don't believe in divine or diabolic agents, you are an atheist. Claiming to be a "Satanist" but not actually believing in Satan or any other supernatural force strikes me as needlessly confusing. 

But no, this guy really did believe and worship an actual devil that he thinks really exists. 

So about halfway through the video, Aron essentially asks him as he does with all religious people, "OK, what evidence do you have to support what you believe" and he responded, as all religious people do, by whining about being picked on and stormed off the interview. 

This line of questioning begins at 29:12.