To all believers: Do you believe in miracles?

[annatar]

Lets discus miracles here! Every religion has its own nutty miracles so don't be shy... For example, muslims believe that muhammed split the moon into two pieces!?! Anyway, here we can discus that did miracles really occured?? Did jeusus really turned the water into wine? And what about now? Do miracles happen and save the day? When you see a surviver from a plane crash do you believe that it was a miracle? Do you believe that one surviver saved by some divine power?

[Minimalist]

Good idea, Anna.

This could be entertaining.

[tackattack]

OK , I'll bite because I'm a sucker..can't guarantee I'll have the time, but ..(big breath) yes

[everythingafter]

Did jeusus really turned the water into wine?

John Crossan's methodology of checking the Bible against itself and against other contemporary writings at the time helps to narrow in on what Jesus actually did versus what his followers said he did. As for the wine miracle, it is located in John 2:1-11 with only a single attestation and in what Crossan defines as the "second stratum" of time, that is 60-80 C.E. A single attestation would be the least likely event to be believed to have happened because it is said to have occurred in only one source, and a late source at that. Thus, since it appears nowhere else, John could have simply added that part, and John is the last gospel account to have been written, adding to and embellishing on the earliest, Mark, the other two, and earlier accounts, deemed not worthy to be included in the canon.

As for miracles, humans look for patterns and coincidences to affirm their faith. As a former believer, I remember doing this. However many recovered cancer patients one can drum up who might claim they had family members and church members praying for them, I can produce an equal number of equally prayed-for patients who weren't as "divinely healed." Selective god or no god? The choice is clear. Shameless plug: I addressed the topic of miracles here.

[Entropist]

If you had asked me 11-14 years ago, when I was something of a "liberal Christian" of sorts, I would've answered "no."

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

However many recovered cancer patients one can drum up who might claim they had family members and church members praying for them, I can produce an equal number of equally prayed-for patients who weren't as "divinely healed.

Indeed. The rate of spontaneous remissions is unknown for certain.However, the consensus is that the rate is not less than 1:30.000

Since Bernadette Soubirous saw her vision at Lourdes in 1858,there have been tens of millions of pilgrims to Lourdes seeking cures. To date, the Church has recognised a total of ---------67


It seems the remaining 99.99 something percent were deemed unworthy. Its's also worth noting there are no records of an amputated limb regrowing or of an empty eye socket growing a new eye.

Addendum:a check on the basis for claims of Lourdes' miracles does not reveal scientific method,but rather the god of the gaps.IE we can find no scientific explanation, THEREFORE,God did it as a conclusion which is not supported.

[Entropist]

However many recovered cancer patients one can drum up who might claim they had family members and church members praying for them, I can produce an equal number of equally prayed-for patients who weren't as "divinely healed.

ARGUMENT FROM INCOMPLETE DEVASTATION
(1) A plane crashed killing 143 passengers and crew.
(2) But one child survived with only third-degree burns.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

[Minimalist]

However many recovered cancer patients one can drum up who might claim they had family members and church members praying for them, I can produce an equal number of equally prayed-for patients who weren't as "divinely healed.

ARGUMENT FROM INCOMPLETE DEVASTATION
(1) A plane crashed killing 143 passengers and crew.
(2) But one child survived with only third-degree burns.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

P.S. - "God" saw fit to wipe out the kid's whole family. Nice work, "god."


You putz.

[Skipper]

If a god did exist who could perform miracles, then why does he wait for people to go through pain, get ill, them and their families fear death? Why dosen't he just make them not get ill in the first place? Because he knows he is eventually going to heal them anyway right? Same goes with accidents, where someone or people survive...why cant he avoid the accident completely? Why does he only say one or two people? So he just willingly lets loads of others die!!??

I also, like padraic said, like to point out when discussing miracles, there is no case ever where god has performed a miracle where something we know to be impossible, i.e. a leg or other limbs regrowing, has happened. He always seems more concerned with people with bad backs, or other diseases that we know to be curable and he has got more and more frequent with his miracles at the same time science and medical care has got more advanced, strange coincidence that.

[Rayaan]

As a believer, I think it's true that the Prophets were able to do miracles like the splitting of the moon, for example.

Maybe they were somehow hacking the laws of physics by the help of God. (?)