(July 23, 2015 at 12:52 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:(July 23, 2015 at 12:44 pm)JesusHChrist Wrote: I did not say the singularity always existed. That is the part of which humans are ignorant. We don't know what happened before Planck time and may never know.
There is no evidence there was a "first" state. What happened over the Planck horizon is currently unknown, but may some day be determined. It's OK to say we simply don't know. Pop a goddit in there if it makes you feel better.
For now, any god has been reduced to existing on the other side of Planck time; safe and sound. A pitiful, small existence for a supposed mighty critter.
If we assume there is a before plank time, we are just extending the state of the universe before plank time, and extended time before that. This is quite irrelevant, and I personally believe infinite spirits were created and tested, before the physical creation of the universe...so I would not define it as the first point of time myself.
But this doesn't do anything to the argument I am showing. My argument goes somewhat like this. Assume universe is of infinite past states. All states of it began to exist (states, not what constitutes the essence of the universe) because every single state of is subject to change. Therefore it makes no sense to say the universe didn't begin to exist, from the view point of "all states" or "any single state of it" (none of it always existed, not a single state of it always existed). Therefore it's a paradox, and we know due to it being in motion and subject to change, it didn't always exist.
The Creator however is not subject to change. Doesn't constitute of moment to moment existence and flow.
I don't know what you mean by "its states"...
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
