How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard

[GrandizerII]

Why bother with complex explanations on how we know so little about the universe that we can't make too broad assumptions when you can simply counter it with some really simple questions?

The argument from causation, first cause or, as it is frequently called by sophisticated theologians, the cosmological argument, usually consists in the following two premises and conclusion:

1 - Everything that exists has or needs a cause

2 - The universe began to exist

3 - Therefore, the universe needs a cause

From the conclusion theists usually deduce that the only possible cause to the universe and all existence is god, given the amount of supernatural and unimaginable power required to create or just set in motion the events that lead to the creation of life, matter and our beautiful ability to breathe oxygen.

Here's how to refute it without needing to know any science at all:

Atheist asks ---> If everything that exists has or needs a cause, then god, whichever we are talking about, needs a cause as well. What caused god?

Theists replies --> God doesn't need a cause because he was always there, he is infinite, timeless, and exists outside of time and space - Hence only him could have caused the events that lead to the creation of the universe as we know it

Atheist asks - Then apparently not everything needs a cause, so why does the universe need one if god doesn't? I rest my case (And premise 1 is false)


TL;DR -----> If god doesn't need a cause then why the fuck does the universe need one? Answer - Special pleading.

sure Boss, maybe we need to fine-tune the argument a little to say:
1. everything in time had to have a beginning because time itself had a beginning (this is proven)
2. if something had a beginning, it needs to have had a cause
3. if it had no beginning it needs to have no cause
4. the cause for the beginning of time is outside of time by definition and therefore needs to have no beginning or end and no cause.

thanks for listening.

No, it's not been proven that time itself had a beginning.

But even if that was the case, no entity, including God, could logically act in any way in the absence of time.