RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard
September 9, 2015 at 5:40 pm
23abills of money out of seeminglypocaracas
In the meantime, they have all been presupposing that a god exists in the first place!
Do ideas, information, mathematics exist, if no human, or conscious being, is around to formulate them? Can M$ Windows exist without a computer?
I wouldn't interpret the current "big bang theory" as placing a beginning in time and space, but rather as a limit to our ability to perceive beyond... In other words, we don't know if there was a before, nor does it seem to be knowable that there was a before.
Yes, but the presupposing has no bearing on the arguments I gave and the science I talked about.
We live in the present. The future is full of possibilities. The past is impossible to reverse. How do we change reality in the present? Through our behaviors, and our behaviors are influenced by our values. Values are immaterial. Just like you can print money out of seemingly nothing. MS window existed as a stolen idea before it came into existence as software.
You can say that the Big Bang is the limit of our knowledge. I guess that's acceptable. But other evidence for the existence of God is the immensely huge improbability of life forming on earth given the number of conditions that all need add up to make it possible.. Estimated that there are around 320 of these conditions, with each of their probabilities to be "just right" to support life and prevent the earth to implode, being less than 1%. Adding all of them up gives a probability for there to be life on earth at a staggering 10 to the power of 23. AllThat in a small window of time!
(September 9, 2015 at 2:37 am)Ronkonkoma Wrote: Either way it had a beginning. And things that have a beginning are usually begotten by a cause.
The original question was, why does God not need a cause? Because He had no beginning.
Not all existence is material. Immaterial things like ideas and information, and even mathematics. These are all immaterial things that have an effect on us, so we know they exist. Logically God could act if He was eternally simple. And that is what all the great theologians have taught that God is eternally simple (i.e. Not made up of any parts/indivisible, and eternal - above space and time.)
In the meantime, they have all been presupposing that a god exists in the first place!
Do ideas, information, mathematics exist, if no human, or conscious being, is around to formulate them? Can M$ Windows exist without a computer?
I wouldn't interpret the current "big bang theory" as placing a beginning in time and space, but rather as a limit to our ability to perceive beyond... In other words, we don't know if there was a before, nor does it seem to be knowable that there was a before.
Yes, but the presupposing has no bearing on the arguments I gave and the science I talked about.
We live in the present. The future is full of possibilities. The past is impossible to reverse. How do we change reality in the present? Through our behaviors, and our behaviors are influenced by our values. Values are immaterial. Just like you can print money out of seemingly nothing. MS window existed as a stolen idea before it came into existence as software.
You can say that the Big Bang is the limit of our knowledge. I guess that's acceptable. But other evidence for the existence of God is the immensely huge improbability of life forming on earth given the number of conditions that all need add up to make it possible.. Estimated that there are around 320 of these conditions, with each of their probabilities to be "just right" to support life and prevent the earth to implode, being less than 1%. Adding all of them up gives a probability for there to be life on earth at a staggering 10 to the power of 23. AllThat in a small window of time!
