RE: God and Morality: Separate Issues
January 4, 2011 at 3:58 pm
(This post was last modified: January 4, 2011 at 4:04 pm by DeistPaladin.)
(January 3, 2011 at 10:44 pm)Stempy Wrote:(January 3, 2011 at 11:19 am)DeistPaladin Wrote: Can you answer my earlier question as to why an advocate for a position doesn't need to explain what they mean by a position?I don't think I claimed the contrary did I?
Yes.
Quote:there is no necessity for an advocate of Option 3 to say that "We know God is good because God is good". In fact, that statement has nothing to do with the ontology of morality (which is the what the traditional Moral Arguments are about) but epistemology.
Getting rid of all the fancy philosophical terms apologists use to obfuscate their nonsense:
"We don't have to explain what we mean or how we figure what we claim to be true. We aren't discussing our logic or how we know something to be true (epistemology), just what we claim to be true (ontology). So we can just say 'God is good and without God you have no basis to discuss morality' without all the hassle having to explain our logic."
Philosophy is often abused by apologists. Their logic always sounds ridiculous when you take out all the two-dollar words.
(January 3, 2011 at 11:38 pm)Ryft Wrote: Please cite references. I am well versed and educated in Christian apologetics, and I have never seen anyone argue that God and morality are ontologically identical. Please provide evidence that there are some within Christian apologetics who make this argument, that "God is morality."
My debates with Theologica37 where he avoided the first two options by claiming the third. I'll see if I can dig up some more academic sources.
Can we agree that anyone, academic or layman, who does make such a claim is using circular reasoning, as I have explained?
DeistPaladin Wrote:The issue of whether or not God exists is irrelevant to questions of right and wrong.
Sure, if you are content to beg the question.
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Well do tell then, if I've missed any other options. That's what this thread is all about.
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist