RE: I am a theist, what do you think of my proof for God existing?
November 10, 2016 at 5:44 pm
Here, mario.... I answer it for you again:
(October 24, 2016 at 7:18 am)pocaracas Wrote: Hello Mario!
We're going to have some fun with words! Ready?
(October 24, 2016 at 5:27 am)Mariosep Wrote: This is my proof for God existing.To call some words "proof" is a bit rash, don't you think?
(October 24, 2016 at 5:27 am)Mariosep Wrote: 1. Formulate the information of the concept of God, thus:I don't get why you didn't stop at "universe", but alright... let's go along with that...
"God in concept is first and foremost the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning."
(October 24, 2016 at 5:27 am)Mariosep Wrote: 2. Look for instances of causation in reality outside of concepts in our mind.Not a solipsist, I see....
I think you need to define causation, here.
What is an "instance of causation"? The moment when something causes something else? When something with energy imparts some of that energy on something else?
But where does all the previously existing energy come from? What caused the energy to exist?
Remember Lavoisier? "Nothing is lost, nothing is created, everything is transformed."
Nothing that we see is a creation of energy... only transforming one form of energy into another.... and energy is like mass, you know E=mc^2, right?
So.... "causation"... what does it mean?
(October 24, 2016 at 5:27 am)Mariosep Wrote: 3. We find countless examples of causation in reality outside of concepts in our mind.Do we?... maybe...
If by causation you mean energy transfer, yes.
If by causation you mean energy generation, no.
Now that those two things have been properly distinguished, let's continue.
(October 24, 2016 at 5:27 am)Mariosep Wrote: 4. From the countless instances of causation in reality, we infer to the existence of a first and ultimate cause.We do?
No we don't. Why would we do such a rash, potentially dishonest, thing?
Can your little head not wrap itself around the concept of infinity? Infinite time backwards... it's not impossible, but it's difficult to grasp, I'll grant you that.
Or the concept of timelessness, a state of affairs in which time is non-existent... actions do not exist, causation is meaningless. Personally, I don't like this possibility... but it can't be ruled out.
(October 24, 2016 at 5:27 am)Mariosep Wrote: 5. We find that the first and ultimate cause of all instances of causation in reality corresponds to our information on the concept of God, namely, the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning.
- Get ready to load up the concept of God with iron-age tales!!
(October 24, 2016 at 5:27 am)Mariosep Wrote: 6. Conclusion: God exists in concept as first and foremost the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning.Wasn't that number 5? Repetition serves no purpose, here...
(October 24, 2016 at 5:27 am)Mariosep Wrote: What do you think about my proof for the existence of God?
Well, I think it's lacking on substance... an actual god, you know?
Also, it could do with a bit more of an open mind - there are countless possibilities for how the Universe came about and most don't posit the existence of a special conscious entity to do it.
And finally, words matter. Words with multiple meanings are dangerous in the wrong hands.
Words like: causation, truth, belief and theory can be twisted along an argument to mean something different from what they mean at the start of the argument... take care with those.
Keep your eyes open for those word traps.