(April 17, 2017 at 12:54 pm)Jehanne Wrote:(April 17, 2017 at 9:50 am)Brian37 Wrote: NO SORRY, you have bought a bullshit cold war definition of "secularism" sold by the asshole bigoted right wing. The founders wanted a secular government. "Secular" DOES NOT mean a call to ban religion. "Secular" means NEUTRAL, neither for or against. NEUTRAL as in not playing favorites by setting up a social pecking order.
Stop projecting your fake superiority bullshit on us. If the founders intended for Christianity to be the only religion with the first dibs, then blame the founders because in the Constitution you only see "freedom of religion" and in the oath of office you see "NO RELIGIOUS TEST". That means Jews and Muslims and Hindus and yes, even atheists in America ARE EQUAL TO YOU under the law. You do not hold more rights than anyone else.
The founders were a variety of beliefs, mostly deist. Jefferson and Paine especially railed against pulpit politics. But all of them agreed that it was not their job to prop up any religion, just their idea that you had the right to do it. I am under no obligation to swear an oath to Jesus anymore than you are obligated to swear an oath to Allah. If you want to live under a government controlled by religion and favors one religion over another, move to Saudi Arabia.
You don't have the right, for example to open a city council meeting with a Catholic prayer then deny the opportunity for a Mormon to do it, or a Buddhist to do it or a Jew to do it. You either share the venue, or agree to keep it neutral and leave it at the door. You are not entitled to a social pecking order based on your religion.
"Secular" does not mean dictator. "Secular" means neutrality through common law. The founders NEVER set up a religious pecking order. Nowhere in the Constitution do you find the words "Jesus, Christianity or bible'.
Quite the contrary:
Quote:Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen (Muslims); and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan (Mohammedan) nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Tripoli
I am well aware of that treaty and article 11, not sure what you mean by "Quite the contrary". Combine that with the First Amendment and the Oath of Office "no religious test" that article supports my argument that "secular" does not mean a call to ban religion. "no religious pretext arising from religious opinions shall every produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries".
It isn't banning anything, it is merely saying that religion cannot override common interests, thus the use of the words "tranquility" and "harmony". That seems consistent with "Freedom of religion". "Secular" means neutrality, neither for or against, neutral.
"The United States of America, is not in any sense, founded on the Christian religion" is only saying the official government stance is that our laws are not bible based. It does remain that the individual rights of the citizen are in tact, including the ability to run for public office regardless of religion, but cannot be included or excluded based on a religious litmus test, thus "No religious test".
It is perfectly legal for example for a politician to swear on a bible, but what Christians don't like hearing is that part is VOLUNTARY not mandatory. If a Muslim wants to swear on a Koran, and Kieth Ellison our Muslim Congressman did, they can. If an atheist runs for office they don't have to swear on any holy book. Separation of church and state does not ban participation. I it merely means no lawmaker is allowed to make religious law common law.
