RE: What beliefs would we consider reasonable for a self proclaimed Christian to hold?
March 4, 2018 at 4:08 pm
(This post was last modified: March 4, 2018 at 5:14 pm by Angrboda.)
(March 4, 2018 at 1:09 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:(March 4, 2018 at 2:39 am)vulcanlogician Wrote: https://www.gotquestions.org/missing-verses.htmlThe above is just not true, I can go look at the original Greek and see the scriptures that were omitted are there.
If we look at Matthew 17:21 in the original Greek:
In the NIV you can see the 21 verse is not there.
btw I took the Greek from this site
http://www.scripture4all.org/about/about.htm
Quote:The objective of Scripture4all (read "Scripture for all") is to make the original Scriptures accessible for a broad public by developing tools to bridge the gap between the original Bible texts and Bible translations.
Quote:Consider Matthew 17:21 for example. You will notice in your ESV a little note which says, “some manuscripts insert verse 21: But this kind never comes out except by prayer and fasting”. If you read this in a KJV you’ll notice it simply says, “Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting”. No footnotes or anything. So what gives?
In 1881 Westcott and Hort published a Greek New Testament using numerous ancient manuscripts which were not available to the original translators of the KJV—way back in 1611. When we discovered these ancient manuscripts we see that in a few places they didn’t square up with the existing manuscripts. In some places—like Matthew 17:21 —the text was omitted in the older manuscript. When you run into one of these differences it is called a textual variant.
When you encounter one of these textual variants the interpreter/translator has to attempt to figure out why there is a difference in the text. And so why would newer manuscripts have Matthew 17:21 but older manuscripts not? Which would should we trust more?
Look at Mark 9:29 (even in your ESV and NIV Bibles) and you will notice a verse that sounds very similar to what was omitted in Matthew 17:21 . Now is it possible that a copyists would have inserted material from Mark 9:29 to make it square with Matthew 17:21 ? Absolutely. In fact we find that this was actually a somewhat common practice.
http://www.mikeleake.net/2015/07/on-thos...bible.html
There are questionable translations in the NIV. There are also questionable translations in the KJV. Your preferring one translation over the other is likely more based on emotion, propaganda, and ideology, than any real examination of the issue. There's nothing magic about the KJV.
(March 4, 2018 at 1:09 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: Also this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_International_Version
Quote:Biblical scholar Bruce M. Metzger criticized the NIV 1984 edition for the addition of just into Jeremiah 7:22 so the verse becomes "For when I brought your forefathers/ancestors out of Egypt and spoke to them, I did not just give them commands about burnt offerings and sacrifices." Metzger also criticized the addition of your into Matthew 13:32, so it becomes "Though it (the mustard seed) is the smallest of all your seeds." The usage of your was removed in the TNIV and did not return in the 2011 revision.
If you're using Metzger as an authority, regarding Matthew 17:21:
Quote:According to The Greek New Testament (4th Edition), edited by Aland, Metzger, et al. (2012), this verse does not appear in the best Greek manuscripts available. In order to save ourselves the tedious task of comparing and contrasting the pros and cons of the variant readings, the late Bruce Metzger has also published the companion volume, which is A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament (2nd Edition, 2012).
On page 35 he writes the following:
17.21 omit verse {A}
Since there is no satisfactory reason why the passage, if originally present in Matthew, should have been omitted in a wide variety of witnesses, and since copyists frequently inserted material derived from another Gospel, it appears that most manuscripts have been assimilated to the parallel in Mk 9.29.
What he is saying, is that the "Editorial Committee" (comprised of the four editors of The Greek New Testament which include Mr. Metzger) had ascribed {A} to their reading, which means that they are "certain" that the verse was not in the autograph.
https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/q...tthew-1721
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