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RE: What beliefs would we consider reasonable for a self proclaimed Christian to hold?
March 3, 2018 at 5:01 pm
I remember my parents telling me, at a young and impressionable age, that unless people are "Evangelical Lutheran" they are doing it wrong.
My guess is, under that criteria, most christians here are doing it wrong. No golden ticket for you.
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental.
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RE: What beliefs would we consider reasonable for a self proclaimed Christian to hold?
March 3, 2018 at 6:29 pm
(This post was last modified: March 3, 2018 at 6:29 pm by Huggy Bear.)
(March 3, 2018 at 3:31 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: (March 3, 2018 at 10:25 am)Huggy74 Wrote: This is simply wrong, the Catholics use a bible with 7 added extra books, while the Evangelicals only have the New Testament in their bible, with the exception of Psalms. So you really just proved GC's point.
It may be more accurate to say that Protestants use a bible with books subtracted from it. Martin Luther removed several books from the OT canon. At no time did Catholics add any books. He also wanted to remove several books from the NT (like James and Revelation) but his followers at the time didn't support this revision, so he didn't end up taking them out. I like to point this out to Christians: your one source of inerrant truth is the way it is because of the politics of the past.
Also, where do you get that evangelicals "only have the new testament"? This is incorrect. I wouldn't think these are errors you'd make, Huggy. Am I misinterpreting your words here? *emphasis mine*
My fault for being unclear, the evangelical-heritage version of the bible only has the new testament and psalms.
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RE: What beliefs would we consider reasonable for a self proclaimed Christian to hold?
March 3, 2018 at 7:24 pm
(This post was last modified: March 3, 2018 at 8:20 pm by Jenny A.)
(March 3, 2018 at 6:29 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: (March 3, 2018 at 3:31 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: It may be more accurate to say that Protestants use a bible with books subtracted from it. Martin Luther removed several books from the OT canon. At no time did Catholics add any books. He also wanted to remove several books from the NT (like James and Revelation) but his followers at the time didn't support this revision, so he didn't end up taking them out. I like to point this out to Christians: your one source of inerrant truth is the way it is because of the politics of the past.
Also, where do you get that evangelicals "only have the new testament"? This is incorrect. I wouldn't think these are errors you'd make, Huggy. Am I misinterpreting your words here? *emphasis mine*
My fault for being unclear, the evangelical-heritage version of the bible only has the new testament and psalms.
The evangelicals I know would be very surprised to hear it. Evangelical is not a denomination and does not have a separate bible. Many Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians, and Lutherans are evangelical. They consider salvation through grace and faith in Jesus central to thier beliefs. And while they do tend to emphasise the Gospels, they haven't thrown out the rest of the Bible. To the contrary, they are often belivers in Biblical inerrancy.
Perhaps you have mistaken The Good News For Modern Man translation of the New Testament for rejection of The Old Testament? It wasn't and isn't. It is now published complete with Old Testament as The Good News Bible.
Edit: I looked up The Evangelical Heritage Bible. Like Good News For Modern Man it's just the first books published in an ongoing translation. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evangelicalism Naturally, they began with they consider most important.
If there is a god, I want to believe that there is a god. If there is not a god, I want to believe that there is no god.
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RE: What beliefs would we consider reasonable for a self proclaimed Christian to hold?
March 4, 2018 at 12:23 am
(This post was last modified: March 4, 2018 at 12:24 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Eeeeewww........a lutheran bible? The evangelical standard is the NIV. Behind that, the NAS. Show me someone wedded to their novelty bible and I'll show you a person looking for an excuse to be a nutter. 
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: What beliefs would we consider reasonable for a self proclaimed Christian to hold?
March 4, 2018 at 2:18 am
Even so, the NIV still has removed scriptures that are found in the KJV.
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RE: What beliefs would we consider reasonable for a self proclaimed Christian to hold?
March 4, 2018 at 2:39 am
(This post was last modified: March 4, 2018 at 2:40 am by vulcanlogician.)
(March 4, 2018 at 2:18 am)Huggy74 Wrote: Even so, the NIV still has removed scriptures that are found in the KJV.
Quote:Since the KJV was translated in A.D. 1611, many Biblical manuscripts have been discovered that are older and more accurate than the manuscripts the KJV was based on. When Bible scholars researched through these manuscripts, they discovered some differences. It seems that over the course of 1500 years, some words, phrases, and even sentences were added to the Bible (either intentionally or accidentally). The verses mentioned above are simply not found in the oldest and most reliable manuscripts. So, the newer translations remove these verses or place them in footnotes or in the margin because they do not truly belong in the Bible.
https://www.gotquestions.org/missing-verses.html
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RE: What beliefs would we consider reasonable for a self proclaimed Christian to hold?
March 4, 2018 at 2:59 am
(March 4, 2018 at 2:18 am)Huggy74 Wrote: Even so, thde NIV still has removed scriptures that are found in the KJV.
Such as . . .?
If there is a god, I want to believe that there is a god. If there is not a god, I want to believe that there is no god.
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RE: What beliefs would we consider reasonable for a self proclaimed Christian to hold?
March 4, 2018 at 1:09 pm
(This post was last modified: March 4, 2018 at 1:14 pm by Huggy Bear.)
(March 4, 2018 at 2:39 am)vulcanlogician Wrote: (March 4, 2018 at 2:18 am)Huggy74 Wrote: Even so, the NIV still has removed scriptures that are found in the KJV.
Quote:Since the KJV was translated in A.D. 1611, many Biblical manuscripts have been discovered that are older and more accurate than the manuscripts the KJV was based on. When Bible scholars researched through these manuscripts, they discovered some differences. It seems that over the course of 1500 years, some words, phrases, and even sentences were added to the Bible (either intentionally or accidentally). The verses mentioned above are simply not found in the oldest and most reliable manuscripts. So, the newer translations remove these verses or place them in footnotes or in the margin because they do not truly belong in the Bible.
https://www.gotquestions.org/missing-verses.html The above is just not true, I can go look at the original Greek and see the scriptures that were omitted are there.
If we look at Matthew 17:21 in the original Greek:
![[Image: zfe8mfZ.png]](https://i.imgur.com/zfe8mfZ.png)
In the NIV you can see the 21 verse is not there.
![[Image: DYstJkZ.png]](https://i.imgur.com/DYstJkZ.png)
btw I took the Greek from this site
http://www.scripture4all.org/about/about.htm
Quote:The objective of Scripture4all (read "Scripture for all") is to make the original Scriptures accessible for a broad public by developing tools to bridge the gap between the original Bible texts and Bible translations.
Also this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_International_Version
Quote:Biblical scholar Bruce M. Metzger criticized the NIV 1984 edition for the addition of just into Jeremiah 7:22 so the verse becomes "For when I brought your forefathers/ancestors out of Egypt and spoke to them, I did not just give them commands about burnt offerings and sacrifices." Metzger also criticized the addition of your into Matthew 13:32, so it becomes "Though it (the mustard seed) is the smallest of all your seeds." The usage of your was removed in the TNIV and did not return in the 2011 revision.
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RE: What beliefs would we consider reasonable for a self proclaimed Christian to hold?
March 4, 2018 at 1:13 pm
Biblical debates. You're winning if you can keep it about the bible, Hugster. Not me though, that thing is only any good for me for dropping off to sleep fast.
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RE: What beliefs would we consider reasonable for a self proclaimed Christian to hold?
March 4, 2018 at 1:19 pm
For a guy that looks like Ernest Hemingway I'd figure you'd have an appreciation for the greatest literary work in existence
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