(March 28, 2018 at 5:47 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:(March 28, 2018 at 5:28 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: I think the author of Quran regardless who you believe it is. Whether people conspired and got Mohammad as a mouthpiece, or whether Mohammad, he is all too aware of how silly it sounds to tell people who are constantly asking for proof and a sign (no matter what is shown to them per quran whether moon splitting or other miracles, they keep asking this), to say Mohammad is the clear proof.
It's most against intuition thought when people ask what's your proof, to say I am the proof. It sound arrogant, and so most of the Quran doesn't reply directly in that fashion. But the Surah called the clear proof. It says it's a Messenger that recites them God's signs...
And what are the proofs and signs of the past. It's people like Moses and Jesus. Like Noah and Abraham.
The miracles they perform are display of some of the power they have.
And the Jews don't see Mohammad clearly in the book of Moses though I see it clearly. And I see it clearly due to the hadiths of Ahlulbayt (as).
But Mohammad in the Torah would not be proof, but it's the way he is in the Torah and how Quran elaborates it in such subtle way, integrating the truth of the family of Aaron and Moses with the family of Ali and Mohammad, and linking to the household of Abraham, and paraphrasing the prayer of Moses, and so on and so forth, that gives perspectives.
And then you have that perspective, and you can't but see Mohammad in the Torah.
It's one of the miracles is how silent the Quran is and yet how loud and clear it is. With reflection, it becomes so loud and clear. Without, it's seems confusing and mumbo jumbo.
And part of it is due to what it says of the sorcery regarding it. All to blind us from it.
Quran without mentioning the original prayer of Moses regarding the one who God will send, with the emphasis on the 2nd prayer of Moses with respect to Aaron which was after God got upset with Moses, and it proves everything.
It proves why we need revelations and Prophethood in the first place, why we need scriptures and Leaders to guide by God's command, and why we need guidance.
And it proves exactly who is meant by "the one who God will send" and there is a whole theme about this.
And in all this, a healing type proof. A proof that only becomes apparent through reflection. And who we are connected to and by who and what means, all this, there is a healing.
Nowhere in all of that; I’m sorry; rambling, is anything resembling proof. Why is it so hard for you to just admit you don’t have any? At least I could respect the honesty.
I don't have any, I just point to the who are the proofs that have plenty of evidence and proofs they can show you of themselves and their holy sacred position. No scripture can be understood in the way it's meant to be at the level it's meant to be without the Guides the scriptures call to and appoint, to manifest it's wonders.
Scripture will never be enough despite Atlas repeating it, it's not the solution to abandon hadiths because they are mixed with falsehood, but go to them with reflection and courage, and only accept what you perceive and seek them to gain perceptions.
I haven't prove the above in this statement, merely, telling you the paradigm I work with.
I think whether you believe in God or Messengers or Guides or don't, you ought to give God a chance to guide through the means he has chosen as a means towards himself.
As for the above sentence, I have provided so much reasoning for this over the year and I'm not going to repeat it all.