Morality

[TeslaTrooper]

I agree that religion has been forced to adapt to the modern world, but I feel now that in England it is Christians that appear to be leading the way in terms of morality (back to original point). Maybe we as non believers need to similarly adapt to some of the ideals that the church are advocating without being religious.

I wouldn't qualify those other countries as Christian countries, as I dont feel they are pushing an overbearing Christian agenda.

Ok, I've asked this already, with regard to this first point, on what basis do you claim that Christians are leading the way in terms of morality? What's your data for this? Can you point to any examples? I think you are displaying enormous selective memory. Of course we all know Christians who are good people and do community work and display a moral compass, and the kind of passive religion you're describing is common here in the UK. But churches have historically been the LAST to change their stances on issues of morality, and this is still visible in the world today when you look at issues surrounding sex and science. One day, the church will support stem cell research and some already promote contraception, but it's really only because they can't get away with denouncing it any more. Make no mistake, if the Mormon church could still be an officially racist organisation as it still was in the 1970s, they would be.

The second part of your post that I've quoted above is just bollocks. Just because you haven't been there and experienced it, and it's not as widely reported in the media, doesn't mean it isn't happening. If you went to one of those countries, you could easily find yourself persecuted, threatened or attacked just for saying you weren't a Christian. Many of them are currently, right now, fighting wars down strictly religious lines against neighbouring countries that follow Islam/Judaism/something else. So don't even try and speculate that they don't push a Christian agenda just because it doesn't suit your argument.

I don't understand why you're persisting with this. It simply is not true that Christians or religious people generally are more moral than the average person. To say we need to adapt to their teachings is to give them undue credit. You think concepts like 'love thy neighbour' and 'do to others as you would have done to you' are Christian concepts? They predate Abrahamic religions by thousands of years.

I guess I am persisting with it because im going off what I see and hear with my senses. Unless my senses are flawed then It is one of the primary things a person can go off. Again back to morality rather than genocide, wars or persecution. If I take my group of friends for example. They will be out taking drugs, banging girls right left and center, drinking too much, possibly having a punch up, and have no sense of family or community at all. To me most of their behaviour I would class as immoral.

Now if I take my brief encounter with the church people I met whilst one of my friends was involved with them, they did not engage in any of the above acts. They were waiting for marriage before sex. Their lives were heavily around the family unit, and around their christian community. When my friend was trying to rope me into it, the snapshot I got was something wholesome and even something I would like to join (if it were not for the religion aspect).

Now possibly I may have had a good view, because it was only a snapshot (however I dont think as soon as I left they were all banging each other and kicking the crap out of each other).


Also for the people that are saying that the moral concepts were pre abrahamic, quite possibly. But whether the Christians have jumped on the bandwagon or not, it would seem they are sticking to those moral concepts more vehemently than secular society.

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I want to mention when you talked about calling your gf fat. I would say it is very morally wrong to NOT tell someone they are fat. We all grew up being told to not tell people they are fat... wrong.. stupid.. blah blah blah to spare them embarrassment. Thats a load of bologna. If someone is fat, you tell them, yes you are fat, then they can remedy their situation so in the long run you actually helped the person, maybe at the cost of a little feelings getting hurt, but it is better for the person to know the truth then to hide behind lies.

Morality is telling the truth no matter what, along with treating people as equals. You do not need a book for that, it is hardwired into our bodies. Ever kill a mammal then feel funny or unsure of what you have just done.. that is your body telling you, why the fuck did you do that. Cry when someone close dies? Have the feeling of betrayal that can not be cured? Biological morality.
Yet we do know many of our kind can not feel empathy, now is that a learned trait, or a biological trail, id say a learned trait. If you are highly religious you have a false sense of superiority so you have learned to not feel empathy because you are "better" than said person, because of a stupid book that says you are.

But at the same time several previous posters regarded morality as not doing harm to another person. To hurt someones feelings is in some form causing harm. I guess in some ways that would in itself lend weight to the argument that morality is contextual. I.e do not kill. But if it is kill or be killed you would most likely kill the other person rather than die.

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For everyone. The gf is fat was only an example it wasnt really meant to represent some underlying issue I have. She is overweight but its not a major problem for me lol. 8+ years together and im very happy.

In those 8+ years on two occasions, have been asked out by two slim blondes. I could link this in to morality again, as my "immoral" friends were telling me to have the other girls on the side, but thats not me at all. Again divorce rates and break ups are going up, because people are pursuing happiness which can change from moment to moment. I have seen people leaving relationships on mere trivialities such as the person is too boring etc. This may be down to age, but it then seems as these people age, they fall into marriages of conveniences rather than for love. I dont want to stir up another hornets nest here, as I dont think religion has it at all right on marriage. Obviously it does not on the whole believe in divorce, but at the same time, I dont feel people should just get married lightly and divorce whenever they feel like it. Its like everytime you look another celebrity is remarrying and within 6 months divorcing.